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In May of this year, we had the pleasure of interviewing Elly, a stage four thriver.

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After the launch of season two, we tried to contact Elly, but our emails and Facebook messages went unanswered.

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We were both worried and felt like something wasn’t right.

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In September of this year via Facebook, we found out she had passed away.

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Elly created a program where she helped survivors rebuild and regain energy after treatment.

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Although the program is no longer active, we felt like it was important to share Elly’s story.

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She was an incredible, good-spirited woman.

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If you would like to make a donation in her honor, her family asked that donations be made to the Ottawa Hospital Breast Cancer Center

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or to the Red Cross to help the people of the Ukraine, which will be linked in the show notes.

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Hi everyone. Welcome to season two. This is Shauna.

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And this is Rosalina. And we’re your hosts for Too Young for This Show podcast.

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This podcast is not just about boobs, but our journey with cancer.

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We are young millennials open about giving you our raw and unfiltered look into our lives.

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We are in no way medical professionals, nor are we offering medical advice.

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Any medical references are cited directly from public websites or form our personal diagnosis.

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Some topics and stories may be triggering to those who are fighting, have felt, or have loved someone with cancer.

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Hi everyone. Welcome back. This is Rosalina.

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And this is Shauna. Hi guys. I’m really excited for today.

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Our guest today is Elly Blackheart. She’s a stage four breast cancer thriver.

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And on this episode, she’ll share her cancer journey and the program she started for survivors.

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So hi Elly. Thanks so much for joining us. I’m so happy you’re here.

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Hello. I am thrilled to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

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Of course.

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Yeah, we’re really excited. And Elly, tell the listeners like a little bit about yourself. Where are you from?

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Sure. Yeah. So I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, which is the capital of Canada.

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I am 41 years old. I’m an engineer. I work in the high tech industry.

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I’m also just to give you a little bit more about myself. I’m a hands-on person and a very active person.

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So hobbies around the house or just hobbies in general, or doing DIY around the house, gardening, landscaping.

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And then for physical activities, I’m really into rollerblading, cycling, playing beach volleyball,

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hiking in the summer months. And then in the winter months, I’m into skating and skiing. So that’s it for me.

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I haven’t rollerbladed in years. Now you make me want to go by.

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I know. Yeah, same. I feel like during the pandemic, everyone bought rollerblades.

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Or a bike.

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Or a bike. Yes, that’s true.

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So Elly, you’re a two-time breast cancer survivor, but first we want to know the time you discovered your lump.

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Like, can you give us like how, when, and where, kind of like a little timeline on that?

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So when I was 37, I found a lump in my armpit, in my right armpit, and I had it checked out.

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And that turned out to be a cyst based from an old sport injury. And that was fine.

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But then what my family doctor did, which was really remarkable, is he said, no, no, no, you know,

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just to make sure I’m going to send you to get a mammogram, I’m going to send you to get checked.

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Because it was so close to my breast and so close to the lymph nodes.

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So he sent me to the breast health clinic and there I met with a surgeon. I did the mammogram.

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The mammogram showed just a little bit of calcification in the right breast and really nothing in the armpit.

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And they confirmed that the cyst or whatever I had in my armpit was benign.

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However, they were worried about the calcification spots.

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And six months later, they called me back to do another mammogram.

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And I did this mammogram. And again, the calcification spots were there, but they had moved.

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And so they were very worried about that.

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All in all, what happened is it ended up being the tail end of a really large tumor.

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And that’s how this whole thing started. It was just based off of a sport injury.

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And my tumor, which I know now, but at the time didn’t know, was four and a half centimeter by two and a half centimeter by three centimeters.

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And the breast surgeon couldn’t even feel it. So that’s really big for something you can’t feel.

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Definitely. Yeah, that’s very big.

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Yeah, that’s huge.

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Yeah.

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So the whole thing was very shocking for me at the beginning because I went in, I’m being told I’ve got a sports injury.

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And I come out with a huge breast cancer diagnosis.

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I was completely demoralized with the whole thing. And it took, this was over many, many months.

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It wasn’t just, you know, you go in and bing bang, boom, it’s all settled because it was quite hidden.

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And I really remember because the mammogram wasn’t showing well, because it was just showing the bottom tail of the tumor.

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It wasn’t until I did an ultrasound with a specialized doctor and she put the ultrasound over the tumor.

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And then suddenly I remember the screen of the ultrasound screen became like a blizzard of snow.

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And the doctor got became really quiet. I just, I think my jaw dropped. I was like, oh my gosh, I’m there’s a big problem right now.

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And then that’s really how this whole event started. It was, yeah, it was very traumatizing to go through that.

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Yeah, absolutely. I remember that day.

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Yeah. I remember that day. Sure. Yeah. It’s beyond trauma.

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Right. I mean, good for your family doctor though, to just say, hey, let’s just check this just in case if it’s anything.

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And then it led to the breast cancer diagnosis months later.

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I was thinking the exact same thing. Like, yeah, like just even out of the precaution just to send you and didn’t dismiss it based off of ages. Amazing.

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A hundred percent agree. It was, I would say, very, very lucky. There is no reason for him to have done that other than just wanting to be extra safe.

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Definitely. Since finding out your diagnosis with breast cancer, can you tell us like the type of breast cancer you had and your surgery and what the treatment plan was for it?

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So I am hormone positive, meaning ER positive and PR positive.

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At first, the doctors thought they were catching it at an early stage because my cancer, like I just spoke, was kind of undetectable.

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But after my surgeries, it was revealed that it was actually stage 3B, which is quite advanced.

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And so we really caught it late, to be honest with you. And this is at the age of 38. So it was quite advanced for my age.

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What type of surgery did you have?

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So I had a lumpectomy with a sentinel node dissection at first.

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And when the biopsy came back for my sentinel node and for the cancer bed, tumor bed, they realized that my cancer was a lot more than they had anticipated.

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All the nodes were filled with cancer. So they rushed me back for a second surgery for a right axilla node dissection.

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And those all came back, nine nodes out of nine came back all full of cancer.

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And the scary bit is that before both those surgeries, I had an MRI and the MRI didn’t reveal any cancer.

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The MRI actually showed that I was clean and I had no cancer.

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So I thought I was going in these surgeries as unnecessary, almost like, OK, well, you’re telling me I have no cancer.

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Why am I doing this?

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And turns out that all my lymph nodes had cancer and we’re talking one centimeter size tumors and the MRI didn’t pick it up.

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So I went from another huge shock.

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Actually, before surgery, I did three rounds of FEC chemo, the FEC chemo.

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And I thought that that had cleared everything because we had done the MRI and everything was clean.

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And then to be told, no, no, you’re still full of cancer.

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You got to go back to chemo is hugely traumatizing.

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And then I was sent back.

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I did I was supposed to do three rounds of docytaxel chemo after the surgeries, but I was only able to complete two rounds because my neuropathy became too bad.

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And then after that, they sent me to radiation and I did 25 rounds of radiation.

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It was planned to do 30, but they had to.

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Well, they stopped after 25 because of the location of my cancer.

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The doctors determined that there would be more damage to my body if they continued.

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So I stopped at 25 rounds.

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I had a similar situation with my MRI telling me he had what lymph nodes weren’t affected.

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And I went in thinking, oh, like, good, great.

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Like, thank God.

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And then then came out and was told I had a second surgery.

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And that was almost worse than being told I had breast cancer.

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It was like, oh, I don’t know, like a disappointment like I’ve never felt before.

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And I was pissed.

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And I don’t know if you felt the same, but I was like very caught off guard by that.

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Absolutely.

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It’s hugely caught off guard.

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You go into the mode of I’m recovering.

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I’ve beat it.

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I you know, you’re into a different mindset and you’re brought back to a hugely traumatizing knowledge of you’re actually not OK.

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You’re really not OK.

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My family doctor said it the best.

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He said it to me.

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It’s the same as if your finish line keeps moving farther and farther away from you.

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So every time you think you’re reaching the finish line, you’re actually not there.

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And it’s way, way, way over there.

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And it’s very demoralizing mentally.

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And the more mentally drained you are, the worse it is or the harder it is for your body to recover.

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That phrase that he just said to you, it’s so accurate, so accurate.

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Like, I feel that a lot of women out there who have been diagnosed with breast cancer can totally relate because I would say I felt that way, too.

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Kind of like love that term.

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And even though it’s like not obviously something like you want to experience, but to have like a name for that, like have, you know, kind of that visual depiction of like, yeah, it is.

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It is it is like almost like demoralizing in a way.

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Yeah, I agree.

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100 percent.

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You just spoke obviously about being caught off guard by that and then obviously having to go back and, you know, do more chemo after you thought you were finished.

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Like, what was the lowest point of your cancer diagnosis?

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I think there are a few.

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The journey’s been long.

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So I’m going to say the two that I’ve already spoken about was one was the one where I saw the blizzard of snow on like what looked like a blizzard of snow on the ultrasound screen.

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That was hugely demoralized.

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And that was really putting reality in my face.

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Like, no, no, you’ve got a really big problem right now.

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The second one was being told you’re, you know, within weeks, you’re cancer free to know actually stage three B.

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Like, that’s hugely demoralizing.

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And then the third one that I would say would be when my cancer came back, that was also a really bad blow.

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So those three things have been really difficult to manage.

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So, you know, you had said, you know, your cancer did end up coming back.

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How long between your 25 rounds of radiation to like, how long was it between that and finding out that your cancer had returned?

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It was just over a year.

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I’m going to say 13 or 14.

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And how did you discover that it did return?

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I had a swollen lymph node under my left armpit, which was the other side this time.

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And after going through everything I’d gone through on the right side, I just knew right away it was a lymph node and it was swollen.

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And I didn’t know anything more other than to report it to my medical team.

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Did you like just like, I know that this is back or were you really optimistic that this, like, you know, like, I don’t know, I feel like some of us know our bodies.

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No, I’m laughing because I get you.

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We know our bodies.

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Like I knew right away it was a swollen lymph nodes, but I was praying so hard that it wasn’t cancer.

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It was just, I was really trying to be optimistic.

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No, it’s just whatever.

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It’s just a swollen lymph node.

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Whatever.

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It’s fine.

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It’s fine.

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And, but I also, at the same time, being very realistic said to myself, I’ve got to get this checked out.

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It’s better to know than not know and, you know, have cancer come back and not being controlled or not have meds or anything like that.

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Because at that time I was off all medication.

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Yeah.

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And so if cancer was coming back, then I needed a game plan.

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So the realistic side of me is like, get your game plan going, know what’s going on.

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And then the optimistic side was, no, no, everything’s fine.

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You talked about that you weren’t taking any medication after radiation.

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Was that because your doctor didn’t want you on any meds?

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You chose not to.

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Yeah.

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So after the radiation, I was put on tamoxifen and they wanted me to continue Zoladex.

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Unfortunately for me, after all the, I’m going to say trauma that had happened throughout that year, I was completely demoralized.

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I was mentally broken, emotionally broken.

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I was crying all the time.

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I just had no quality of life.

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Yeah.

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And there was a decision to start taking me off of these because all that was happening was I was in bed crying every single day.

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And there was no quality of life.

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So after a few months, there was a decision to take me off because I wasn’t a functioning human being.

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Shauna, that sounds so similar to you.

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I’m literally, I feel you.

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Yeah.

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Just like I’m listening to this when I’m like, post-cancer has not been easy for me and just crying all the time and just feeling like there is no quality of life.

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And what did I do this for?

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I mean, I understand completely.

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Like it breaks my heart to like, you know, other people have experienced this, they’re going like, feel this after too.

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I just, I get like emotional thinking about it, you know?

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Yeah, it’s extremely tough.

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Yeah.

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I don’t know.

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It’s just after everything.

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It’s just like, why?

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Like, why is this still so hard?

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You know, I was still experiencing all of this and it’s just like not fair.

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It’s so unfair.

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Because for me, I went from being a really active, hands-on person, really out there, like outdoorsy person to being bedridden.

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And I’ve never sat in my bed so long that like my bum was sore.

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Like I’ve never had that in my life.

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It’s just, and you’re crying all the time.

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You can’t go to the store without just bursting out in tears and you can’t go to the store without, you know, just feeling horrible.

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Like it’s just, so you just stay in bed demoralized.

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Yeah.

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When you said just like a broken person, like that’s how I’ve said that about myself in the last probably five, six months.

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Like I just feel like I’m such a broken person and it’s, then you have to get out of it.

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Like having to try to get your life back and try to get out of that.

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And now, you know, you didn’t have a quality of life and now you find out your cancer has returned and metastasized.

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Like what was going through your mind?

204

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So there were two things going through my mind.

205

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The first one is because of my engineering background and my knowledge of statistics, when my dad, my doctors initially told me that, you know, everything was done.

206

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I was cured.

207

00:15:31,040 –> 00:15:37,360

I didn’t really believe them because all the nodes came that were removed were filled with cancer.

208

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So that’s nine out of nine.

209

00:15:38,480 –> 00:15:43,840

So the chances of another node in my body having cancer to me were extremely high.

210

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I didn’t, from a realistic point of view, I didn’t believe the doctors because mathematically it didn’t make sense.

211

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From an optimistic point of view, I said, okay, they tell me I’m clean.

212

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I’m going to live my life like I have no cancer.

213

00:15:57,440 –> 00:15:59,280

I’m not going to let cancer define me.

214

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So when the cancer came back, it was just, it was like, it sucked.

215

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Like it just really sucked.

216

00:16:07,040 –> 00:16:12,080

It was hugely disappointing because I thought I was doing the right things.

217

00:16:12,080 –> 00:16:28,800

But at the same time, I had already kind of pep talk myself months ago or told myself months ago that the reality statistically speaking is that there are high chances that I am actually stage four, not stage three B.

218

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Like they’re saying it’s such a fine line, right?

219

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It’s like it’s a hair away from and, and the MRI wasn’t good at picking up my cancer to begin with.

220

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So the chances of it being elsewhere were extremely high.

221

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So I was kind of prepared, but it sucked.

222

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Like there’s no tomorrow.

223

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Like that’s the last thing you want to hear, especially just 13 or 14 months after I was just finally starting to feel better.

224

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I was finally starting to be able to feel alive and get out of bed and have energy and being able to do stuff.

225

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And then it’s like, okay, here we go again.

226

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But I’ll just tell you my cancer journey since I found the lymph node, the swollen lymph nodes.

227

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So when, when I found the swollen lymph node in my left armpit, I was really lucky when I went to get the ultrasound, the doctor decided to biopsy it right away.

228

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There was a two or three months wait time for that biopsy.

229

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But because I had a background with cancer, the doctor didn’t take a chance.

230

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And I knew right away, which was actually extremely lucky because once cancer came back, it came back really aggressively and really quickly.

231

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Within months, I had cancer in my bones.

232

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I had cancer in my liver.

233

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I had cancer in my lungs.

234

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I was having trouble speaking and breathing at the same time.

235

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It was, it went in my eyes.

236

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There was my right eye.

237

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I was starting to see gray.

238

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Like it was really bad.

239

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And that was within two months.

240

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It was super quick.

241

00:17:52,320 –> 00:18:01,280

And so I’m thrilled that because of this biopsy that was done, I think two or three months earlier than it should have been,

242

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I got thrown into the medical system to get the ball going on.

243

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Okay.

244

00:18:06,080 –> 00:18:08,720

What tests need to happen now to see what’s going on.

245

00:18:08,720 –> 00:18:22,160

And every time, every month I went to get a new test, it was always getting worse and worse and worse because it went from just a lymph node to lungs being full to bones being fractured to now it’s in your liver.

246

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Now it’s in your eyes.

247

00:18:23,280 –> 00:18:26,240

Then it went in my shoulders and went my hips.

248

00:18:26,240 –> 00:18:31,680

And so luckily I got all these tests done that I was able to get onto these medication.

249

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Because again, through all these tests, I wasn’t on any medication.

250

00:18:34,160 –> 00:18:45,680

And then finally, after all the tests were done, I was able to get on the, this cocktail of medication and it’s called endocrine therapy for me, meaning very strong estrogen blocking drugs.

251

00:18:45,680 –> 00:18:46,640

That’s really what it is.

252

00:18:46,640 –> 00:18:54,960

So it’s a cocktail of Palbo cyclab, which is also known as Ibrans, full vestrand and Zoladex.

253

00:18:54,960 –> 00:18:57,600

And you didn’t tolerate the tamoxifen well.

254

00:18:57,600 –> 00:19:00,880

So how are you tolerating this cocktail now?

255

00:19:00,880 –> 00:19:03,520

I’m doing it really well, actually tolerating it.

256

00:19:03,520 –> 00:19:05,920

Surprisingly, I’m surprising myself.

257

00:19:05,920 –> 00:19:07,360

I’m surprising the doctors.

258

00:19:07,360 –> 00:19:17,200

And I’m going to say that that’s because I have changed my lifestyle and I do daily mental, emotional and physical activities.

259

00:19:17,200 –> 00:19:21,840

I really integrated into my life a way to feel better.

260

00:19:21,840 –> 00:19:27,520

And as a side effect of that, the meds aren’t doing much.

261

00:19:27,520 –> 00:19:28,880

I still have chemo brain.

262

00:19:28,880 –> 00:19:31,360

I still have low white blood cell counts.

263

00:19:31,360 –> 00:19:36,000

But other than that, I don’t have all these other major side effects that people have.

264

00:19:36,000 –> 00:19:38,960

Like I don’t have, I don’t know, I don’t have mouth sores.

265

00:19:38,960 –> 00:19:39,840

I don’t have skin rash.

266

00:19:39,840 –> 00:19:42,800

I don’t have, there’s a list and listen, my hair is not thinning.

267

00:19:42,800 –> 00:19:45,600

There’s a list of side effects that I’m not getting.

268

00:19:45,600 –> 00:19:52,640

And I really attribute it to living a healthy lifestyle and helping my immune system be strong.

269

00:19:52,640 –> 00:20:00,960

And so since then, so it’s been about six months since then, that in combination, I’m going to say with a healthy lifestyle.

270

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So I’m not going out eating junk food.

271

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I have a really strict way that I eat.

272

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I have supplements that I take.

273

00:20:08,240 –> 00:20:11,360

So it’s a full body, mind and soul approach.

274

00:20:11,360 –> 00:20:14,080

It’s not just drugs, but the drugs have helped.

275

00:20:14,080 –> 00:20:20,640

Within six months, I went from all this cancer in my body to really not being functional again,

276

00:20:21,200 –> 00:20:26,320

to now being, now having undetected cancer with the imaging.

277

00:20:26,320 –> 00:20:32,880

I still believe though that there’s probably some cancer inside of me for some time that it’s just not detectable.

278

00:20:32,880 –> 00:20:40,720

As long as I’m in control right now, or as long as I, with this cocktail and with what I’m doing,

279

00:20:40,720 –> 00:20:44,880

my immune system stays stronger than the cancer, then I’m happy.

280

00:20:44,880 –> 00:20:45,840

That’s how I see it.

281

00:20:45,840 –> 00:20:48,960

As long as cancer hasn’t taken over, I’m happy.

282

00:20:48,960 –> 00:20:51,040

You said you do a strict diet.

283

00:20:51,040 –> 00:20:51,840

What is the diet?

284

00:20:51,840 –> 00:20:53,120

Do you want to get like a general?

285

00:20:53,680 –> 00:20:59,600

Yeah, the diet is a low carb, low sugar diet.

286

00:20:59,600 –> 00:21:06,720

And if I eat animal products, I eat organic and lots of fish, lots of shrimp.

287

00:21:06,720 –> 00:21:10,880

And keeping the carbs low has been really helpful.

288

00:21:10,880 –> 00:21:14,320

So that seems to be an approach that’s working for me right now.

289

00:21:14,320 –> 00:21:16,560

So I’m going to keep doing what’s working right now.

290

00:21:17,040 –> 00:21:17,760

Yeah, absolutely.

291

00:21:18,640 –> 00:21:19,520

I wanted to ask this.

292

00:21:19,520 –> 00:21:22,720

I’m like just so curious about like universal health care.

293

00:21:22,720 –> 00:21:26,000

Like it’s, I just don’t understand how it works.

294

00:21:26,000 –> 00:21:28,640

I feel like all Americans like wondering about that.

295

00:21:30,560 –> 00:21:35,840

You know, obviously it wasn’t easy to, you know, three months is a long time.

296

00:21:35,840 –> 00:21:38,000

To wait for a biopsy.

297

00:21:38,000 –> 00:21:42,960

I mean, especially based off of like how, you know, quickly from you go from like a

298

00:21:42,960 –> 00:21:45,920

sonogram to mammogram to a biopsy.

299

00:21:45,920 –> 00:21:47,440

I mean, mine was in less than a week.

300

00:21:47,440 –> 00:21:49,520

I don’t know how long, how long was yours?

301

00:21:49,520 –> 00:21:51,120

Yeah, mine was just a week basically.

302

00:21:51,120 –> 00:21:51,680

Yeah.

303

00:21:51,680 –> 00:21:58,960

Is it easy to like book appointments with specialists or is it not like, how does this work?

304

00:22:00,960 –> 00:22:04,000

So I just want to say that two to three months wait for biopsy.

305

00:22:04,000 –> 00:22:07,840

That was because of COVID because too many women were coming in with swollen lymph nodes

306

00:22:07,840 –> 00:22:11,360

because it was also the time that the vaccine had started coming out and lots of people

307

00:22:11,360 –> 00:22:14,320

were getting swollen lymph nodes because of the vaccine.

308

00:22:14,320 –> 00:22:17,600

So there was a larger amount of people to be tested.

309

00:22:17,600 –> 00:22:25,520

That’s why typically before then, before COVID, it was a, it was about two, three weeks wait

310

00:22:25,520 –> 00:22:27,760

time, which is I think very appropriate.

311

00:22:27,760 –> 00:22:28,320

Right.

312

00:22:28,320 –> 00:22:33,600

But, but yeah, I was kind of lucky in that situation because the, the, the, the, the

313

00:22:33,600 –> 00:22:37,040

doctor knew that the wait time was, was ridiculous if it was cancer.

314

00:22:37,040 –> 00:22:39,520

So that’s why she kind of did it right away.

315

00:22:39,520 –> 00:22:40,640

So, okay.

316

00:22:40,640 –> 00:22:41,920

Universal health care.

317

00:22:41,920 –> 00:22:46,240

So the way it works is once you’re diagnosed, you’re essentially kind of put in the system.

318

00:22:46,240 –> 00:22:48,800

It’s not that you have to go out and book appointments.

319

00:22:48,800 –> 00:22:54,960

It’s not that you get to pick a physician, pick a specialist, you get put in the system

320

00:22:54,960 –> 00:23:00,400

and you get called instead and you get told where to go, when to go, who you’re seeing.

321

00:23:00,400 –> 00:23:05,520

It’s, it’s a very well organized system from a, I’m going to say a cancer point of view.

322

00:23:05,520 –> 00:23:08,560

I was very impressed by it, to be honest with you.

323

00:23:08,560 –> 00:23:11,280

I always hear about lots of wait times and everything like that.

324

00:23:11,280 –> 00:23:12,640

I did not wait with cancer.

325

00:23:12,640 –> 00:23:18,320

I think if you’re in a life or death situations, the hospitals here in Canada work extremely

326

00:23:18,320 –> 00:23:18,960

well.

327

00:23:18,960 –> 00:23:23,360

If you are in a situation where you just kind of hurt yourself, then yes, there are lots

328

00:23:23,360 –> 00:23:28,160

of delays, but if you’re in a life or death situation, I had no wait really.

329

00:23:28,160 –> 00:23:36,720

Within a week, I had an appointment to get imaging and within a, another week I, I had

330

00:23:36,720 –> 00:23:42,560

an appointment with my specialist and, and the system basically it’s all online and it

331

00:23:42,560 –> 00:23:44,880

tells you where to go, when to go, who you’re seeing.

332

00:23:44,880 –> 00:23:45,920

It’s really simple.

333

00:23:45,920 –> 00:23:51,280

The only flip side to that is it’s very regimented because of the process.

334

00:23:51,280 –> 00:23:55,040

So if I want to go see my specialist another time, I can’t.

335

00:23:55,040 –> 00:23:58,320

You have designated times to see the specialist.

336

00:23:58,320 –> 00:24:02,640

You can see like for chemo, for example, my oncologist, I can only see him every second

337

00:24:02,640 –> 00:24:03,200

chemo.

338

00:24:03,200 –> 00:24:05,200

I couldn’t see him after every chemo.

339

00:24:05,200 –> 00:24:10,240

That’s because those are the rules and the government’s paying, so they get to set the

340

00:24:10,240 –> 00:24:10,640

rules.

341

00:24:10,640 –> 00:24:11,440

Interesting.

342

00:24:11,440 –> 00:24:15,520

And do you have to see like a primary care physician to be able to see specialists?

343

00:24:15,520 –> 00:24:20,960

Do you need referrals or can I, you could just say like, I want to see like a gastroenterologist.

344

00:24:20,960 –> 00:24:22,240

So I want to see this doctor.

345

00:24:22,240 –> 00:24:25,680

Like you could just book it.

346

00:24:25,680 –> 00:24:26,560

You need to refer.

347

00:24:26,560 –> 00:24:31,920

You need to go to your family doctor first and the, and then the family doctor will refer,

348

00:24:32,560 –> 00:24:35,360

but you can, you can request for some stuff.

349

00:24:35,360 –> 00:24:38,880

You can, for some procedures, you can request to your family doctor.

350

00:24:38,880 –> 00:24:40,800

I’d like to see this specialist.

351

00:24:40,800 –> 00:24:48,400

You can do that once for the MSA for the cancer set up or the cancer clinics, there is no

352

00:24:48,400 –> 00:24:49,440

picking specialists.

353

00:24:49,440 –> 00:24:52,480

You’re just putting the system and whoever can take you takes you.

354

00:24:52,480 –> 00:24:52,960

Okay.

355

00:24:52,960 –> 00:24:53,520

Got it.

356

00:24:53,520 –> 00:24:53,760

Yeah.

357

00:24:53,760 –> 00:24:58,000

I mean, that’s like similar to, I mean, by having to need a referral, that’s like similar

358

00:24:58,000 –> 00:24:58,720

to America.

359

00:24:58,720 –> 00:25:03,200

I mean, based off of your insurance, like, you know, some insurance, you do need referrals

360

00:25:03,200 –> 00:25:04,160

to go see specialists.

361

00:25:04,160 –> 00:25:05,920

Like I don’t have that in my insurance.

362

00:25:05,920 –> 00:25:09,920

So like if I, you know, I’m having stomach issues, I can just book an appointment with

363

00:25:10,800 –> 00:25:12,560

my gastro with a gastro doctor.

364

00:25:12,560 –> 00:25:16,000

Like I don’t need that referral, but some health insurance, I don’t know if Rosalina’s

365

00:25:16,000 –> 00:25:18,400

is, but you need that referral in order to see.

366

00:25:18,400 –> 00:25:18,720

Yeah.

367

00:25:18,720 –> 00:25:19,360

Certain specialists.

368

00:25:19,360 –> 00:25:20,560

So that’s like the similar.

369

00:25:20,560 –> 00:25:25,120

Now, I know you said with, you know, with COVID, obviously it backed up a lot of stuff.

370

00:25:25,120 –> 00:25:28,640

Like, did it back up all doctors appointments?

371

00:25:28,640 –> 00:25:31,440

In New York, we got hit so hard by COVID.

372

00:25:31,440 –> 00:25:32,640

Like it was terrible.

373

00:25:32,640 –> 00:25:34,640

It didn’t, people weren’t leaving their homes.

374

00:25:34,640 –> 00:25:40,240

And I think people are still scared and like are now finally just feeling comfortable to

375

00:25:40,240 –> 00:25:44,960

like go see their doctors and get like, you know, their yearly colonoscopy and things

376

00:25:44,960 –> 00:25:45,280

like that.

377

00:25:45,280 –> 00:25:51,120

And, and so between that and then the lack of like workers now in hospitals, like a lot

378

00:25:51,120 –> 00:25:54,560

of people COVID, especially in New York, made people like leave their jobs.

379

00:25:54,560 –> 00:25:56,480

Like, did you find it even harder now?

380

00:25:56,480 –> 00:25:58,560

Like everything’s backed up even more.

381

00:25:59,440 –> 00:26:04,720

So I’ve heard that our system is backed up because of COVID for the cancer center.

382

00:26:04,720 –> 00:26:08,080

I mean, I’ve not really seen any issues.

383

00:26:08,800 –> 00:26:10,000

The nurses are still there.

384

00:26:10,880 –> 00:26:11,920

The doctors are still there.

385

00:26:11,920 –> 00:26:16,480

Yeah. From the cancer center point of view, it’s not really COVID has not really affected

386

00:26:16,480 –> 00:26:18,560

the system for other systems.

387

00:26:18,560 –> 00:26:20,720

Yes. COVID has definitely affected it.

388

00:26:21,200 –> 00:26:26,320

The only right, like imaging and like procedures and things like that probably.

389

00:26:26,320 –> 00:26:26,560

Right.

390

00:26:26,560 –> 00:26:26,800

Yeah.

391

00:26:26,800 –> 00:26:31,920

The only thing that’s really been affected for me is my reconstruction surgery.

392

00:26:32,560 –> 00:26:34,320

I’ve now been waiting two years.

393

00:26:34,320 –> 00:26:41,200

And the reason for that is because during COVID, during high peaks of COVID, I’ve been

394

00:26:41,200 –> 00:26:42,400

waiting to get the second surgery.

395

00:26:42,400 –> 00:26:42,660

So like perhaps, especially because of my ignore the

396

00:26:42,660 –> 00:26:44,180

summer break, and I was getting that first one.

397

00:26:44,180 –> 00:26:45,940

Then during January, also was waiting.

398

00:26:45,940 –> 00:26:46,440

Fifth surgery.

399

00:26:46,440 –> 00:26:50,120

I have not gotten it to come, any, our system didn’t work gritty time.

400

00:26:50,360 –> 00:26:52,020

We went by supplies that we cannot do better.

401

00:26:52,020 –> 00:26:53,380

And then finally I sat in the Chair office.

402

00:26:53,380 –> 00:26:56,380

I have been in the Chair for many, many months now, which is an splinter in my head,

403

00:26:56,560 –> 00:26:57,280

but yeah, no problem.

404

00:26:57,900 –> 00:26:59,040

So my Wandering Chef.

405

00:26:59,040 –> 00:27:02,500

That remarkable loss is now kind of here a little more than I imagined it,

406

00:27:02,840 –> 00:27:04,580

but it has been Android Magic.

407

00:27:04,580 –> 00:27:10,340

the future? The reconstruction I’m planning on getting is fat grafting in addition with

408

00:27:11,780 –> 00:27:16,900

implants. Yeah and I’m going to be going with over the muscle instead of under the muscle.

409

00:27:16,900 –> 00:27:21,780

Unfortunately that’s a two operation approach versus a one operation approach because you can’t

410

00:27:21,780 –> 00:27:27,380

do the fat graft and put the implant over the muscle at the same time because there’s too much

411

00:27:27,380 –> 00:27:32,660

risk of damaging the implant with the fat grafting. I didn’t know that. Yeah however I’ve picked that

412

00:27:32,660 –> 00:27:37,780

just because I am a very active person. I use my arms a lot. I’m always especially with the

413

00:27:37,780 –> 00:27:43,860

gardening I’m always lifting heavy stuff and I need my muscles to be physiologically in the right

414

00:27:43,860 –> 00:27:50,820

place. Not under no sorry not over an implant. I want the implant to be over the muscle. Yeah I

415

00:27:50,820 –> 00:27:58,260

felt the same way too. I did it because I’m super active as well. I didn’t want the implant to be

416

00:27:58,260 –> 00:28:03,620

under the muscle because I just hear like weird things happening where it’s just like it like

417

00:28:03,620 –> 00:28:11,380

goes to the side when like you’re lifting or you know doing yoga it kind of like freaks me out

418

00:28:11,380 –> 00:28:17,140

just like hearing about that. I wish I don’t have the options of the amount of skin I have so

419

00:28:17,140 –> 00:28:22,580

unfortunately I have to go under but um I have to make do but yeah I wish I wish I was able to have

420

00:28:22,580 –> 00:28:27,700

that choice and make that choice so I’ve only been educating myself about under the muscle implants

421

00:28:27,700 –> 00:28:32,740

and what that means and things like that but I wish I wish I had the uh the option to pick.

422

00:28:33,620 –> 00:28:40,980

I agree with you and I want to say for all the women out there that educate yourself on on this

423

00:28:40,980 –> 00:28:45,460

because my doctor didn’t give me the option at first he just went away and went right away to

424

00:28:45,460 –> 00:28:48,740

we’re putting it under the muscle this and that and this and that and then it was only that’s

425

00:28:48,740 –> 00:28:52,900

actually because of COVID there’s been such a delay I’ve actually had time to research I’m like

426

00:28:52,900 –> 00:28:57,300

oh wait a second what’s this over the muscle and then I ended up talking to my doctor about it.

427

00:28:57,300 –> 00:28:59,700

He said oh yeah you can do that I’m like why wasn’t this offered?

428

00:29:01,140 –> 00:29:03,940

Yeah. This is a better solution for me and it wasn’t offered.

429

00:29:04,580 –> 00:29:09,620

Yeah exactly like my plastic surgeon said oh I recommend under the muscle I’m like

430

00:29:10,660 –> 00:29:17,540

I kind of want to do over the muscle I want to do that choice not under the muscle so yeah I

431

00:29:17,540 –> 00:29:21,620

I agree with Yali like she didn’t even tell me about over the muscle I’m not sure why

432

00:29:22,420 –> 00:29:25,060

they do that but that could be another conversation.

433

00:29:25,060 –> 00:29:30,180

Is there a timeline for when they’ll be able to start doing those procedures again?

434

00:29:30,180 –> 00:29:34,340

No timeline they are so backlogged they cannot give me a timeline.

435

00:29:34,340 –> 00:29:37,940

They’re still not doing them or they’ve started there’s just now such a backlog.

436

00:29:37,940 –> 00:29:43,140

They’ve started there’s just so much of a backlog that they can’t yeah exactly so they started about

437

00:29:43,140 –> 00:29:50,420

two months ago at the same time they’re also ramping up doing these right so they had nobody was in the

438

00:29:50,420 –> 00:29:55,540

op these operating rooms for this so they have to set things back up and it’s just taking a long

439

00:29:55,540 –> 00:30:03,140

time and getting the staff to come back and so. I have a question about second opinion were you

440

00:30:04,100 –> 00:30:11,700

able to have that option to see another surgeon if you’re not happy with the current one

441

00:30:12,340 –> 00:30:18,420

that you have or like your oncologist? Yes we have that option here okay and typically again

442

00:30:18,420 –> 00:30:24,420

is through referrals to get a second opinion and I have a friend who wasn’t happy with her oncologist

443

00:30:24,420 –> 00:30:29,860

here and she asked for another oncologist and she was able to get another oncologist so they’re very

444

00:30:29,860 –> 00:30:37,460

open to basically giving you the care that you need and the best care that you need so from that

445

00:30:37,460 –> 00:30:45,460

point of view I like I’m very impressed with the health care I’ve received here in Ottawa.

446

00:30:45,460 –> 00:30:51,700

Do they also have like a program for cancer patients of like you can like see a therapist

447

00:30:51,700 –> 00:30:57,380

a program like with support groups I’m just curious if Canada gives you that option? Yes so

448

00:30:57,380 –> 00:31:04,500

depending on what it is so cancer yes they they will provide a social worker that you can go see

449

00:31:04,500 –> 00:31:11,140

if you requested and if you sign up for it and it depends some programs outside of cancer will

450

00:31:11,140 –> 00:31:16,340

have a social worker some don’t it really depends on the program and what the government’s decided

451

00:31:16,340 –> 00:31:24,260

has this available or not if not I have insurance through work and I can get it through my regular

452

00:31:24,260 –> 00:31:29,940

insurance. It’s so nice that they give you that option in Canada. Absolutely absolutely it’s

453

00:31:29,940 –> 00:31:34,340

wonderful not having to deal with insurance is wonderful like just being able to go and it’s

454

00:31:34,340 –> 00:31:39,140

free and you don’t need to sign here sign there send paperwork there’s none of that you just show

455

00:31:39,140 –> 00:31:44,260

up and it’s really wonderful because you’re at the time where you’re at your lowest your brain’s not

456

00:31:44,260 –> 00:31:49,700

functioning well you’re in a state of trauma that’s why you’re going and so you’re not thinking

457

00:31:49,700 –> 00:31:56,900

clearly so not having to have all this extra stuff to do with insurance is really wonderful actually.

458

00:31:56,900 –> 00:32:02,420

It must be so nice too to not have to basing your care off what you can afford you know there’s so

459

00:32:02,420 –> 00:32:06,500

many people that are like I can’t afford the imaging I can’t afford this and then you know

460

00:32:06,500 –> 00:32:12,740

their health ultimately pays the price of that and that must be so nice to not even just like

461

00:32:12,740 –> 00:32:17,700

have to have that be one of your first thoughts like how am I even going to afford to to have

462

00:32:17,700 –> 00:32:24,020

cancer basically cancer is expensive here in America. Oh yeah and yeah chemo is super expensive

463

00:32:24,020 –> 00:32:29,220

I know that I think every chemo here was valued at ten thousand dollars and I just get to walk in

464

00:32:29,220 –> 00:32:35,700

oh yeah I wave my little health card and I get to walk in sit down and you know I just have to repeat

465

00:32:35,700 –> 00:32:40,660

my date of birth and my name and they put it in the system and I’m done like this it’s wonderful

466

00:32:40,660 –> 00:32:46,820

from that point of view I find myself extremely lucky to not have all those extra bills to think

467

00:32:46,820 –> 00:32:52,420

of I don’t have this financial burden over my head of can I afford can I not afford I just

468

00:32:52,420 –> 00:32:56,740

go to the hospital and it’s all taking care of me and the system’s taking care of me it’s

469

00:32:56,740 –> 00:32:59,780

it’s very wonderful it’s regimented though and it’s got its flip side but it’s

470

00:32:59,780 –> 00:33:06,260

I’m going to say it’s more wonderful than than that. I have a question just with your friends

471

00:33:06,260 –> 00:33:15,060

and family while you were diagnosed with cancer or even when your cancer has come back did you

472

00:33:15,060 –> 00:33:21,220

have any support from your friends and family? I had lots of support everybody’s very

473

00:33:22,420 –> 00:33:28,500

positive everybody’s wanting was wanting to help me in whatever way that they could I found it hard

474

00:33:28,500 –> 00:33:34,580

to say what I needed because when the first time around I didn’t know what I needed so it was a

475

00:33:34,580 –> 00:33:38,820

bit tricky because people want to help but you don’t know how to let them help you don’t know

476

00:33:38,820 –> 00:33:44,500

what you need so that was the only thing but they were there to help me and there’s only a certain

477

00:33:44,500 –> 00:33:47,860

amount that they can help you emotionally because they don’t know what you’re going through so

478

00:33:47,860 –> 00:33:55,140

that’s the other hard bit sorry and so I would recommend a social worker definitely in the cancer

479

00:33:55,140 –> 00:34:00,500

program or that knows about cancer because it friends and family it’s too much for friends and

480

00:34:00,500 –> 00:34:05,140

family I found I had to go talk to other people even though they were there and they were very

481

00:34:05,140 –> 00:34:11,620

supportive. Oh that’s wonderful that’s like that’s like the best thing that you can even have

482

00:34:12,900 –> 00:34:18,260

apart from everything that was happening. It’s so true when you said like you don’t even know what

483

00:34:18,260 –> 00:34:24,660

you need in that moment and yeah like I know I needed to feel like I was in control like I

484

00:34:24,660 –> 00:34:30,100

needed to feel like I say you know that did you feel that way like you were like I am just like

485

00:34:30,100 –> 00:34:37,380

gonna take the reins and yes so a few times I tried to quit chemo and because it was just so

486

00:34:37,380 –> 00:34:44,260

hard it’s really hard and my family members were there to say no no no come back and really

487

00:34:44,260 –> 00:34:52,180

supported me on it’s hard because you’re like I’m willing to go poison myself this is mentally not

488

00:34:52,180 –> 00:34:56,740

okay but anyways it was good that they were there to help me come back and the same thing for radiation

489

00:34:56,740 –> 00:35:03,220

after I think round 10 I quit I was leaving I was just I’m done like this isn’t enough this is insane

490

00:35:03,700 –> 00:35:09,060

but then they were there to say no no the doctors are recommending this for a good reason

491

00:35:09,700 –> 00:35:19,780

you need to go back. Yes but they would never understand like how you felt in that moment. No

492

00:35:19,780 –> 00:35:23,780

no they don’t understand because they’re not going through it the best they can do is listen to the

493

00:35:23,780 –> 00:35:30,260

doctors and they unfortunately I think unless you go through it you don’t understand you really

494

00:35:30,260 –> 00:35:35,140

don’t understand that’s the hard bit and I find that that’s really hard with your partner significant

495

00:35:35,140 –> 00:35:42,340

other or whatnot is you’re in this new life and it’s really hard to convey how you’re feeling how

496

00:35:42,340 –> 00:35:48,580

what’s going on with you because it’s so extreme and they’re trying to support you in the best way

497

00:35:48,580 –> 00:35:53,700

that they know how but they’re not going through it so you’re it’s a bit of a fork in the road

498

00:35:53,700 –> 00:36:00,020

because you’re going through this new life process and they’re not and it’s actually quite hard.

499

00:36:01,700 –> 00:36:07,380

All right let’s talk about the program now. Sure. So since being diagnosed with breast cancer you

500

00:36:07,380 –> 00:36:13,940

created this great resource for women who have undergone cancer treatment and now looking to

501

00:36:13,940 –> 00:36:19,060

re-energize and rebuild their bodies and mind and can you tell the listeners how you started your

502

00:36:19,060 –> 00:36:26,820

program and why you felt like there was a need for it? Absolutely so after the first round of

503

00:36:26,820 –> 00:36:33,780

treatments after I had done the chemo the surgery the radiation I really felt broken weak fragile

504

00:36:33,780 –> 00:36:41,140

traumatized and scared and then I read that this was really typical and normal and and so I just

505

00:36:41,140 –> 00:36:45,860

went home and waited for time to heal like the doctors had recommended but instead I was getting

506

00:36:45,860 –> 00:36:53,060

worse and worse and worse and more depressed and my quality of life was getting worse and there was

507

00:36:53,060 –> 00:36:59,620

no quality of life really and so I started investigating and how how do I change this

508

00:36:59,620 –> 00:37:05,300

like this is not okay I’m this is not my new normal I’m gonna be better than this this is not

509

00:37:05,300 –> 00:37:12,260

acceptable so I started doing lots of researching lots lots of reading and then I started applying

510

00:37:12,260 –> 00:37:19,380

things and trying different techniques on myself until a few months later I figured out this routine

511

00:37:20,020 –> 00:37:27,300

for myself and I really felt alive again and it was bringing back my energy and I didn’t feel alone

512

00:37:27,300 –> 00:37:35,940

or ashamed anymore I didn’t feel broken anymore I stopped crying randomly and most of my treatment

513

00:37:35,940 –> 00:37:41,060

side effects were gone and I felt like wow finally like I’m super thrilled to be alive my quality of

514

00:37:41,060 –> 00:37:50,420

life is back and that’s how this whole program started is and what I created for myself which was

515

00:37:50,420 –> 00:37:58,100

basically daily stretches deep breathing some specific body strengthening some dancing some

516

00:37:58,100 –> 00:38:04,660

flexibility and some mind and soul modalities to really address all the emotional trauma

517

00:38:05,300 –> 00:38:11,700

and it would only take me about 45 minutes a day to do it and and I decided I’ve got to share this

518

00:38:11,700 –> 00:38:17,540

I can’t just keep this to myself this was so helpful to me I’ve got to put this out there I also

519

00:38:17,540 –> 00:38:22,980

searched for something like this when I was like before creating it for myself when I was

520

00:38:23,940 –> 00:38:28,500

not having when I my quality of life was so poor I couldn’t find anything so I thought well this is

521

00:38:28,500 –> 00:38:36,180

a real need out here because I can’t find it and it’s not just go do some meditation or just go do

522

00:38:36,180 –> 00:38:42,500

some yoga or just go dancing it’s really a full body mind approach I couldn’t find that and that’s

523

00:38:42,500 –> 00:38:49,300

really after you’ve gone through cancer treatment all three have been completely damaged and that’s

524

00:38:49,300 –> 00:38:55,540

why I feel the word broken is so valid it’s because everything is broken your physical has

525

00:38:55,540 –> 00:39:00,420

been destroyed your mental has been destroyed especially with the chemo fog brain fog and then

526

00:39:00,420 –> 00:39:08,580

your emotional self with all the trauma it’s it’s it’s a lot so to me having this entire self

527

00:39:08,580 –> 00:39:15,540

healing approach was really helpful to me and then I started sharing it with some people and it was

528

00:39:15,540 –> 00:39:20,740

helping with people sorry with other women that had undergone breast cancer and it was really

529

00:39:20,740 –> 00:39:25,860

helping them too and I thought oh my gosh like this is this is really helping people so let’s

530

00:39:26,420 –> 00:39:31,140

let’s share it and this is how it started it was very organic it just really started with just

531

00:39:31,140 –> 00:39:36,900

trying to help myself how long did it take you to find this combination of mental health and

532

00:39:36,900 –> 00:39:42,180

how did you define this combination of things that helped like was there a lot of trial and error

533

00:39:42,180 –> 00:39:47,620

were you finding some things worked and then didn’t work yeah it took it took about five or

534

00:39:47,620 –> 00:39:54,820

six months to get it down and I tried so many modalities I tried I also tried different experts

535

00:39:54,820 –> 00:40:00,180

so for the same modality I tried many experts and some experts I thought didn’t work for me at all

536

00:40:00,180 –> 00:40:08,820

but I found that doing lots of very beginner yoga was really good to re-elasticize the muscles I

537

00:40:08,820 –> 00:40:14,100

could find that the chemo and the radiation really tightens and just tenses us up completely

538

00:40:14,100 –> 00:40:19,220

which it’s almost like going back to basic and doing very beginner moves and and that’s what it’s

539

00:40:19,220 –> 00:40:25,540

all about it’s all about finding experts that can do or that do very beginner moves and that was hard

540

00:40:25,540 –> 00:40:32,660

to find at first yeah absolutely I think that it is really difficult especially when you have gone

541

00:40:32,660 –> 00:40:39,060

through all this treatment and your body just went through so much you’re like my body can’t do

542

00:40:39,780 –> 00:40:47,300

like very intense workout or like a yoga class it’s really difficult to find just for beginner

543

00:40:47,300 –> 00:40:54,100

base yeah or that are tailored to like mastectomy patients I had a hard time finding a yoga class

544

00:40:54,100 –> 00:41:00,100

for mastectomy patients I had a hard time finding you know like a post mastectomy like stretch or

545

00:41:00,100 –> 00:41:05,700

post mastectomy friendly workout I guess and you know it’s just that’s not like you’re right

546

00:41:05,700 –> 00:41:11,460

there there is not a ton of resources when it comes to that and I agree with you and that’s

547

00:41:11,460 –> 00:41:16,100

really well said it’s tailored to what we’ve gone through and our body’s got to start back from

548

00:41:16,100 –> 00:41:25,220

that so yeah that’s really good all right so just to wrap this up we ask our guests just a fun

549

00:41:25,220 –> 00:41:33,940

mystery question that’s not cancer related so Elly if someone was to visit Ottawa for their

550

00:41:33,940 –> 00:41:40,740

first time what are just the top five things that you would recommend people doing seeing eating

551

00:41:40,740 –> 00:41:46,660

that’s a lovely question and so Ottawa is not that big of a city it’s more of a government city so

552

00:41:46,660 –> 00:41:51,700

this is where we have federal provincial and municipal we have the three levels of government

553

00:41:51,700 –> 00:41:57,140

here so there’s the parliament which is the I guess would be the white house for you guys

554

00:41:57,140 –> 00:42:01,140

there’s the parliament here I would recommend visiting that in the downtown core that’s very

555

00:42:01,140 –> 00:42:06,020

nice we also have many beaches here in Ottawa so if you’re coming in the summertime I would

556

00:42:06,020 –> 00:42:12,100

highly recommend our beaches we have what’s called a green belt in Ottawa so there’s a

557

00:42:13,300 –> 00:42:18,660

around the city they’ve the government has blocked off areas where it’s only for wilderness and it’s

558

00:42:18,660 –> 00:42:24,340

only for you can’t build anything there it’s really for nature and so we’ve got this what’s

559

00:42:24,340 –> 00:42:28,580

called a green belt there’s lots of trails in the green belt that you can go hiking in there’s also

560

00:42:28,580 –> 00:42:33,540

across the river it’s called the Gatineau Park and you can go hiking there it’s really lovely there

561

00:42:33,540 –> 00:42:36,580

summertime is a good time to come for festivals and that kind of stuff if you want to

562

00:42:37,860 –> 00:42:44,820

come in the wintertime in the wintertime we have a canal so that they they lower the water

563

00:42:44,820 –> 00:42:50,580

and they allow it to freeze and they it’s the longest skating rink in the world so you can go

564

00:42:50,580 –> 00:42:55,780

skating there and it’s really wonderful well thank you so much for for coming on and we just

565

00:42:55,780 –> 00:43:00,900

we can’t thank you enough for for coming on and doing this with us well thank you for doing what

566

00:43:00,900 –> 00:43:05,620

you do and please keep doing what you’re doing we we need more of what you’re doing it’s amazing

567

00:43:05,620 –> 00:43:11,860

and thank you so much thank you all for listening and supporting our podcast sharing our stories

568

00:43:11,860 –> 00:43:17,700

with you has been incredibly healing for both of us and we hope it helps other women in their

569

00:43:17,700 –> 00:43:22,180

journeys through breast cancer ladies if you enjoyed this episode please share with your

570

00:43:22,180 –> 00:43:27,300

friends and fellow breasties help us reach more women by subscribing and rating us on apple

571

00:43:27,300 –> 00:43:34,980

podcast spotify and now on youtube you can follow us on instagram at tyfts podcast and email us at

572

00:43:34,980 –> 00:43:41,220

tyftspodcast.gmail.com we love hearing from you guys so shoot us a message we will link any

573

00:43:41,220 –> 00:43:57,700

resources from the episode in our show notes