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I remember thinking, well, if I make it to 30, I’m going to be stoked.

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I made it to 30.

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Now I’m looking to 40 and I’m like, all right, let’s go to 40.

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Hi everyone.

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Welcome to season two.

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This is Shauna.

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And this is Rosalina.

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And we’re your hosts for Too Young for This Shit podcast.

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This podcast is not just about boobs, but a journey with cancer.

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We are young millennials open about giving you our raw and unfiltered look into our lives.

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We are in no way medical professionals, nor are we offering medical advice.

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Any medical references are cited directly from public websites or form our personal

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diagnosis.

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Some topics and stories may be triggering to those who are fighting, have fought, or

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have loved someone with cancer.

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Hi everyone.

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This is Rosalina.

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And this is Shauna.

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Welcome back to the Too Young for This Show podcast.

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Our guest today is Justine, a social psychologist, college professor, and a certified yoga teacher.

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She runs an Instagram account called Yoga with Just where she shares about her survivorship

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and holds weekly meditation for the breast cancer community.

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Hi Justine.

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Thank you so much for joining us.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I’m really excited to be here.

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Yes.

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I am so excited to just like dive into your journey.

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But before we do that, can you tell the listeners just a little bit about yourself, just not

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cancer related, you know, like your age, career, interests, hobbies?

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Yeah.

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So I’m originally from Connecticut, but I’m currently living in Rhode Island.

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I’ve been in Rhode Island for over a decade now.

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And I’m 33 and a psychology professor, as you noted.

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And so I’ve been doing that for over five years now after I got my PhD in psychology.

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And interests and hobbies, you know, we’ll talk a little bit about the yoga meditation

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stuff later.

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But I also love to cook.

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So I like trying different recipes, especially after cancer.

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Like I really got into just trying new and different ways of enjoying like nutrition.

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So like different vegan dishes and that to be said, I don’t solely eat vegan.

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I’m a person that feels really strongly about moderation is key for me.

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And so, yeah, hiking.

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We love to hike with our dog.

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We have a dog named Maddie and we have two ferrets.

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Their names are May and Watts and they’re really curious and silly.

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When I, sorry, short story.

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When I was a kid, I had a friend who had a ferret and I thought it was the coolest thing

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ever.

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They’re really sweet.

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Yeah, they are.

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They really are.

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My sister wanted one so bad, but I think like in New York, they’re illegal.

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You can’t have them as pets in New York.

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Yeah.

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In certain states, they’re illegal or they’re like really regulated because they’re exotics.

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So it’s really weird.

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So Justine, let’s just get into your cancer diagnosis.

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At 23 years old, you were diagnosed with breast cancer and that was 10 years ago.

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But before we get into your cancer story, at that age, what did you know about breast

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cancer?

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Oh God, nothing.

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Literally, I mean, when I say nothing, I had no family history.

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I didn’t know anyone.

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I heard a friend’s aunt or grandma passed away or something right from cancer, but it

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was women in their 60s and 70s, not people my age and nothing like that.

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So I had no idea about really any of it.

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The only stories I knew were people who had passed and those were people who were very

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tangentially associated.

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I was associated with.

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So really no nothing.

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And that’s so important to say because this is just like a judgment free zone.

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I did not, I didn’t know much about breast cancer either.

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It wasn’t talked about in school and just people around me.

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And like you mentioned, the only time you heard about breast cancer is that it happens

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to women over 40.

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Unfortunately, it can happen to anyone.

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Now jumping into your cancer journey, take us through the beginning, starting with how

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you found your lump.

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Yeah.

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So I was, like I said, 23, I just finished my first year of grad school.

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So I was like trying to use the summer to like get ahead on my master’s thesis proposal

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and try to even graduate early.

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I was, you know, I was ahead of the game and I kind of found my lump by chance in the shower.

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So just to be very clear and open, you know, I wasn’t doing self exams because I wasn’t

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normalized.

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That wasn’t a thing that was like, Hey, you should be doing this and you know, feel it

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on the first.

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Those things were just not conversations had in any sort of space.

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Right.

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To do it monthly.

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Yeah.

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My breast exam happened when I went to my like annual gynecology appointment.

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And like that was when you had your breast exam done.

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Exactly.

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And that was it.

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And so, you know, I wasn’t super concerned.

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You know, the first thing I did, 23, called my mom.

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Hey mom, I felt this lump.

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What do I do?

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And she’s like, well, call your gynecologist.

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And she was really, she’s the one who encouraged me to do that.

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And she wasn’t worried either.

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I mean, but she’s like, you know, you don’t know, let’s just check it out.

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And we actually had a family trip to Vegas scheduled the next week.

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And so I ended up scheduling that appointment for like two weeks after that trip or something,

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because that was just the way the timing was going to work out.

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And I wasn’t really stressing about it.

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I went on that trip.

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There’s pictures of me, like I look back at those pictures.

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I’m smiling.

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Little did I know I had cancer in me, which is wild to think about.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And so I got back.

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I had the appointment with my gynecologist and he wasn’t really concerned either.

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He said, you know, I think this is like a benign fibroedema.

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You’re young.

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You don’t have a family history.

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You shouldn’t really be concerned.

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And I went back, you know, after I was diagnosed and I actually thanked him because I went

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and he’s like, you know what, let’s send you for an ultrasound just in case.

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Doesn’t hurt to get it looked at and got the ultrasound.

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I remember sitting there and, you know, laying there, my mom went with me because this was

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pre-COVID time, so she was able to do that and because I was really nervous, of course.

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And I remember I think it was either Shauna or Rosalina.

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I can’t remember which one of you had talked about this in your episode, but the silence

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of the technician.

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I remember.

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Yeah, that was me.

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Yeah.

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So silent.

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OK.

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And just the clicking.

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There was so many clicks that they were doing to measure.

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And I remember that.

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That was freaking me out hard.

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Yeah.

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So it was complete silence and, you know, for me, it was like, you know, there was the

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spot where my lump was.

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But then there was the lit up with the calcification.

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So I had all these calcifications in my breast, which is also associated with the breast cancer.

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And she was silent.

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She walked up there and said, I’m going to go get the doctor.

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I said, OK.

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I didn’t like that.

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But I just sat there.

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Yes, that happened to me, too.

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I started crying.

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Yes.

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The radiologist comes back.

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He, you know, my BIRAD score was super high.

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I mean, they were like, yeah, this is probably cancer.

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You were going to obviously send you for a biopsy.

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And I was like, great.

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But we still have to do a mammogram because of insurance purposes, even though it’s very

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likely that it’s cancer.

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So I had to go through the whole mammogram process.

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Glad I never have to do that again, because my gosh, mammograms are terrible.

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And I like so painful.

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I was just talking about this with somebody yesterday.

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Like I’m so glad I was a one and done mammogram participant.

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For real.

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I’m so glad.

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Yeah, I have PTSD thinking about it.

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Oh, yeah.

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And so I had the biopsy like a day or two after that.

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It was on a Friday.

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I remember that because I had to wait the weekend to get my results.

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And they were like, oh, we’re going to see you on Tuesday.

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And I get a call on a Monday and they’re like, hey, we’d really like to see you today.

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Whenever you can come in.

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Yeah.

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You’re the VIP.

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Like literally this language where I’m like, fuck, I have cancer.

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And the moment they called and my parents had gone to work that day because they thought,

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oh, you’re it was summer.

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So I was at my parents’ house and, you know, we’ll be fine and we’ll go tomorrow to the

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doctor.

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And I call them and I say, you need to come home.

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We need to go to the doctor.

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And the moment I got that call, I actually got a call from my gynecologist office and

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they called me about support groups, which nothing had been official.

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Yeah, I don’t think there was anything like they didn’t know.

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They just wanted to make sure I had support, I think.

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But that was the moment I somehow knew.

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And I dropped.

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I think in a movie, I tell people this all the time, like it was in a like I dropped

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the phone and I started screaming like I and I when I say I screamed like it was a visceral

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reaction of what is happening.

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Like I literally went into some sort of fused state of screaming and my sister was home.

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She’s 19 and she literally was like, are you okay?

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Like she didn’t know what to do.

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She’s like, are you like what’s happening?

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And you know, then I calmed down.

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I explained what was happening.

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And by the time we got to the breast surgeon’s office and she told me, she’s like, okay,

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you know, you have DCIS, which is what they I was initially diagnosed as.

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And I was really stoic.

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My mom’s crying.

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And I’m like, all right, so we’re going to take them both.

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Let’s do it.

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And she was like, oh, okay.

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But I think I had like had the the visceral reaction prior.

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So I was very like, okay, put on the game face kind of thing.

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Yeah, like survival mode kicked in.

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Like, now what?

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What’s next?

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Yeah, yep.

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Exactly.

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And so yeah, so I chose to have a bilateral mastectomy since I was small chested to begin

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with after surgery.

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They got clear margins, but my lymph nodes came back as partially positive.

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And so I had to do chemotherapy.

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So I didn’t have to do radiation, but I did have to do chemotherapy.

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And I did go for a second opinion at Dana-Farber to see if like I qualified for any clinical

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trials, all that kind of jazz.

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At the time there was none because I was pretty like, I don’t want to say a standard case

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because of my age, I wasn’t but because of the profile, right?

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I was ER positive, PR positive, HER2 negative.

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And highly of the other two, like really high of PR and PR positive.

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So they were kind of like, well, we’re really just going to recommend ACT, so Adromycin

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Cytoxin and the Taxol.

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And so because it was pretty standard and there was no clinical trials for me at the

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time, I said, you know what?

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I would rather just go to my local cancer center where, because my parents were going

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to help care for me through treatment.

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And I said, you know, this will just make things really easier for me.

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So I’m not worrying about like commuting to Boston by myself and just being by alone really

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was the deal.

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So I did that and I again, didn’t have radiation.

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So treatment wise, that was my main kind of deal in terms of initial diagnosis and active

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treatment.

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And then I was on Tamoxifen for seven years.

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How many rounds of chemo did you do?

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So I did Adromycin Cytoxin for four rounds bi-weekly and then I did Taxol for 12 weeks

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weekly.

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Okay.

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So you did 16 rounds like I did, yeah?

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Which is again, pretty standard for like that kind of profiles.

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But at the same time going into it, I had no one who had done chemotherapy.

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So I’m like, okay, I’m going to lose my hair and then what else?

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And no one tells you about all the other things you have to deal with when you’re going through

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chemotherapy.

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Like the new LASTA shots.

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My gosh, I still remember the pain from those new LASTA shots.

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I hate those so much.

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It’s terrible.

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Yeah.

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I have a clear memory of like laying in bed and my legs just throbbing because of the

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bone pain.

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It was terrible.

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I feel like I lived in an Epsom salt bath, at least 12 rounds.

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Oh yeah.

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So what stage were you?

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Oh yeah.

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Gosh, I didn’t even say that.

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So it was originally DCI, yeah.

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So stage zero, but then surgery with the involvement of my lymph nodes, it was stage 1B.

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Just because of the size of my tumor plus the lymph node involvement.

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Yeah.

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I think it’s incredible that you found it early and your doctor just said, hey, let’s

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just get it checked.

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Because if he dismissed that, then your stage could have been worse.

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Oh gosh, yeah.

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Well, and that’s not funny.

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It’s actually a sad story, but I distinctly remember.

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So my breast surgeon, after I had gotten my diagnosis, and she literally said, I’m really

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glad your doctor sent you for that ultrasound because other doctors would say, wait six

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months and come back.

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And she had literally had another patient who was 26, only a couple of years older than

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myself at the time, who had just been diagnosed stage four because the doctor had told her

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to wait.

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And that happens scarily more often than we like to believe.

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So that just gave me chills.

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Which is why I went back and thanked my doctor because I was literally like, thank you.

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Because if it wasn’t for you, I don’t think looking back now, it’s like, I wouldn’t have

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been Aaron.

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And again, he was someone who I wouldn’t necessarily classify someone who was like, oh, I’m going

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to do this and be an advocate for young women or anything.

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He was just kind of a chill older male gynecologist who was really sweet.

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And so yeah, really good doctor.

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I was really lucky in that regard.

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After you were diagnosed, I know that you were feeling very distraught and probably

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angry even.

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But did you do any further research or did you just slowly get your information from

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your doctors?

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Yeah.

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So I definitely did a lot of my own research, different forums, different research articles.

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Because as I said, I was in grad school.

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So I was that nerd who was literally reading medical journals and coming in and being like,

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oh, well, this is what the research said.

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And they were like, wait, you read that?

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And I was like, yes, I did.

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And so especially early on, I think as time has gone on, done less of that.

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I still keep up on things, but it’s to a lesser degree.

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But early on, I really dived in deep because it was the way I coped, really.

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That’s how I coped to.

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I need to know a lot of things.

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And I would ask more deeper questions just so I can kind of get a sense of like, is the

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oncologist or is the surgeon saying this because that’s just the protocol?

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Or did they really believe that in my case that this should be what it needs to be?

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Exactly.

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You just need to know everything too.

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I need to expect everything and I need to be fully informed before I go into a situation.

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In anything, whether it’s like cancer or anything.

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So I’m like that as well.

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But it’s also just like taking charge, right?

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Taking charge of your health.

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It’s a control piece.

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Yeah.

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And I think too, where so much feels out of control.

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So I talked about feeling overwhelmed and all of that and angry.

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And I think that was my way of taking control.

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Well, one of the ways is, okay, you know what?

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I can’t change what’s happening, but I can change the fact that I have knowledge about

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it and better inform myself.

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And to me, that was helpful.

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Yeah.

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And I mean, when I was 23, I felt like a naive person at that age.

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And I’m sure there’s just a lot of women who probably felt that way too.

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But I’m so glad that you’ve just mentioned that you just took action because there should

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be more young women to say like, no, I don’t agree with this.

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Or no, I want to get it checked out.

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Something is unusual and I disagree that we should wait six months.

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I think we should advocate more for sure.

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And also normalize the fact too really quickly that if my doctor had told me that day, go

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home, I’ll see you in six months.

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Or if it gets worse, I would have went home, peace of mind.

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So I want to normalize that too because I think I had a lot of more implicit faith and

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trust in my doctors because you don’t know better until you know.

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And if you know, you know kind of thing.

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And so I didn’t know.

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And I think I would have left that day feeling okay about that.

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And again, now I wouldn’t be that person.

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But also normalizing if someone ends up being that person and then they find out something

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later on, that’s also like that happens.

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And you can’t blame yourself either.

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What we can do is also teach doctors to be more informed that this happens in young women.

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And so just kind of normalizing that from the patient end of things, because I think

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sometimes it’s like we can advocate for ourselves and that we should 100% advocate for ourselves.

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And then also if we don’t have the tools to do so, our doctors should be the ones advocating

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for us.

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Yeah, like you said, like you went in, like that’s a medical professional.

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Somebody who like went to school had got the education to kind of tell me what’s going

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on in my body.

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So yeah, I would have left their peace of mind trusting that, you know, like I did what

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I was supposed to do.

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I went, I got this checked out and for somebody to tell me, yeah, like see you in six months,

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I’d be like, yeah, see you in six months.

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And I also wanting to believe that this isn’t like something so serious.

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00:17:13,160 –> 00:17:19,840

So I know that you mentioned that, you know, at 23, you were starting graduate school.

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At that time in the financial aspect of things, were you still financially dependent on your

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parents or were you able to find like a job and get health insurance to your employment?

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00:17:31,880 –> 00:17:33,240

Just walk us through that.

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Yeah.

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So I want to say, I always tell them like, I want to say I was lucky, but I’m thankful

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00:17:37,240 –> 00:17:41,520

that I was in graduate school at the time because of the fact that since I was still

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a student under Obamacare, I was able to be insured under my parents, even though, because

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I was a student.

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00:17:48,000 –> 00:17:52,640

I had a part-time position, like I was like all my bills and things, like I paid myself.

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00:17:52,640 –> 00:17:55,880

But in terms of health insurance, that was still through my parents because I was able

365

00:17:55,880 –> 00:17:57,680

to have that till I was 26.

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00:17:57,680 –> 00:18:01,240

It was amazing because my mom worked at the time.

367

00:18:01,240 –> 00:18:04,520

Since I was a kid, she’s worked in admin assistant roles in education.

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00:18:04,520 –> 00:18:09,040

And so she worked at that time for a middle school and her health insurance was amazing

369

00:18:09,040 –> 00:18:10,860

through the state of Connecticut.

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00:18:10,860 –> 00:18:14,520

And so I didn’t have the medical bills that other people were having.

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So I didn’t have to go through the GoFundMe or those kind of things because I felt like

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I was in a place where I didn’t have that.

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00:18:22,960 –> 00:18:28,400

I did and I do have student loans, but I didn’t have that plus medical bills.

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00:18:28,400 –> 00:18:31,780

And so I’m really thankful that I was in that place because of it.

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00:18:31,780 –> 00:18:33,360

But then there’s that, where’s that weird transition?

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00:18:33,360 –> 00:18:37,560

When I turned 26 and I said, okay, now I’m on not so good graduate student insurance.

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00:18:37,560 –> 00:18:42,040

I hope I don’t get sick again over these next whatever the time period until I get

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00:18:42,040 –> 00:18:44,080

employed and finish my degree.

379

00:18:44,080 –> 00:18:49,040

I was lucky that wasn’t the case, but that was a concern I had for quite some time during

380

00:18:49,040 –> 00:18:50,840

that, any time I had health concerns.

381

00:18:50,840 –> 00:18:51,840

Yeah, of course.

382

00:18:51,840 –> 00:18:57,960

I mean, after a cancer diagnosis, you’re like, anything can happen.

383

00:18:57,960 –> 00:18:58,960

Yeah.

384

00:18:58,960 –> 00:19:06,320

Well, that and making decisions based off health insurance.

385

00:19:06,320 –> 00:19:11,920

Having to do things like get a domestic partnership like what I did in order to get my partner’s

386

00:19:11,920 –> 00:19:13,720

really good health insurance and things like that.

387

00:19:13,720 –> 00:19:15,560

You start making those decisions.

388

00:19:15,560 –> 00:19:16,840

And just to kind of relate to that.

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00:19:16,840 –> 00:19:20,600

So when I turned, when I finished my PhD, I was going on the job market.

390

00:19:20,600 –> 00:19:23,440

And at the time I was like not sure if I was going to have a job.

391

00:19:23,440 –> 00:19:25,440

And so I wasn’t going to have health insurance.

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00:19:25,440 –> 00:19:28,440

And so my partner and I had gotten engaged.

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00:19:28,440 –> 00:19:33,520

Him and I had gotten engaged like six months prior and we actually moved, like we got married

394

00:19:33,520 –> 00:19:36,000

sooner because we wanted to make sure I had health insurance.

395

00:19:36,000 –> 00:19:37,400

Everyone was like, oh, are you pregnant?

396

00:19:37,400 –> 00:19:39,960

I’m like, no, I need health insurance.

397

00:19:39,960 –> 00:19:43,520

And he understands that and wants to make sure I’m cared for.

398

00:19:43,520 –> 00:19:46,680

And so we got married a little bit earlier to ensure that I was insured.

399

00:19:46,680 –> 00:19:50,320

Although I worked out, I ended up getting a position where I got better health insurance

400

00:19:50,320 –> 00:19:52,600

shortly after that, but we didn’t know that.

401

00:19:52,600 –> 00:19:58,080

And so we made sure I was in a place where I was always insured because that was a concern.

402

00:19:58,080 –> 00:20:00,960

Your husband, was he with you when you were, when you were you guys together, when you

403

00:20:00,960 –> 00:20:01,960

were diagnosed?

404

00:20:01,960 –> 00:20:02,960

No.

405

00:20:02,960 –> 00:20:08,040

So I was, I was in a relationship, but you know, that part and I just didn’t work out.

406

00:20:08,040 –> 00:20:11,960

And so I had met him actually shortly after I had finished chemotherapy.

407

00:20:11,960 –> 00:20:14,320

So he had actually met me with like my hair wrap and everything.

408

00:20:14,320 –> 00:20:18,680

He was on an interview for our PhD program and that’s where we met.

409

00:20:18,680 –> 00:20:22,280

And then we became acquainted shortly after and probably dated like a year after that.

410

00:20:22,280 –> 00:20:26,080

But yeah, so I, he’s known me only with my scars only.

411

00:20:26,080 –> 00:20:31,440

I had the note about that at some point through this, but I’ll maybe bring it up later.

412

00:20:31,440 –> 00:20:38,400

You know, we had a conversation, a Zoom meeting together prior to recording this episode.

413

00:20:38,400 –> 00:20:44,020

And you mentioned that while you were going through chemotherapy, you still continued

414

00:20:44,020 –> 00:20:45,920

your graduate program.

415

00:20:45,920 –> 00:20:52,520

Can you tell the listeners like, how did you have the strength to continue that?

416

00:20:52,520 –> 00:20:54,660

For me, I really needed something to focus on.

417

00:20:54,660 –> 00:20:58,680

So the month between, so I was diagnosed July 30th, 2012.

418

00:20:58,680 –> 00:21:02,720

I had surgery August 8th, and then I was recovering from surgery.

419

00:21:02,720 –> 00:21:07,360

And I will tell you, during that time, I just, I was like ruminating a lot, like right of

420

00:21:07,360 –> 00:21:08,920

everything I was dealing with.

421

00:21:08,920 –> 00:21:14,320

And I just felt like, and I didn’t have an outlet because I didn’t know anyone my age.

422

00:21:14,320 –> 00:21:18,000

So I really didn’t have an outlet of like support in that way.

423

00:21:18,000 –> 00:21:23,380

And so I felt like continuing my education gave me something to focus on.

424

00:21:23,380 –> 00:21:26,120

It’s also just very on brand for me as a person.

425

00:21:26,120 –> 00:21:29,400

I’m very much a person who kind of goes, goes, goes.

426

00:21:29,400 –> 00:21:34,360

I’ve slowed down in more recent years as I’ve reflected on the importance of rest.

427

00:21:34,360 –> 00:21:40,040

But when I was 23, that was not a thing I prioritize, which most 23 year olds don’t.

428

00:21:40,040 –> 00:21:41,040

It was helpful.

429

00:21:41,040 –> 00:21:43,240

It was a focus point for me.

430

00:21:43,240 –> 00:21:46,040

And so I think the downtime was harder.

431

00:21:46,040 –> 00:21:51,440

And so school really gave me an outlet to focus because besides my family, I was really,

432

00:21:51,440 –> 00:21:53,960

felt really alone through the experience.

433

00:21:53,960 –> 00:21:59,180

Did you get any like assistance from your university or college professors?

434

00:21:59,180 –> 00:22:04,600

I’m just wondering if like they, I don’t know, like understood what you’re going through

435

00:22:04,600 –> 00:22:08,000

or if you mentioned to them that you’re going through chemotherapy.

436

00:22:08,000 –> 00:22:09,000

Yeah.

437

00:22:09,000 –> 00:22:14,560

So it was really interesting because my department specifically, there was actually several cancer

438

00:22:14,560 –> 00:22:17,400

survivor like breast cancer survivors in that department.

439

00:22:17,400 –> 00:22:21,080

It was just, it was actually this like whole thing, but either way they, there were several

440

00:22:21,080 –> 00:22:22,080

of them.

441

00:22:22,080 –> 00:22:23,080

So they were really supportive.

442

00:22:23,080 –> 00:22:27,240

And my specifically, my mentor, my, what we call my major professor, the person who like

443

00:22:27,240 –> 00:22:30,720

guided me through grad school was really supportive.

444

00:22:30,720 –> 00:22:34,080

You know, he actually encouraged me to take a year off and I said, no, that’s not going

445

00:22:34,080 –> 00:22:35,080

to work for me.

446

00:22:35,080 –> 00:22:39,920

And he wasn’t too surprised knowing who I am, but instead I scaled back.

447

00:22:39,920 –> 00:22:46,260

As I said, I took two classes instead of like three or four and I scaled back my teaching.

448

00:22:46,260 –> 00:22:49,340

So I made my schedule Tuesdays, the Thursdays.

449

00:22:49,340 –> 00:22:52,440

So I kept my schedule really constrained where I had to be on campus.

450

00:22:52,440 –> 00:22:54,380

Cause again, this was pre COVID time.

451

00:22:54,380 –> 00:22:58,240

So you weren’t like the working from home thing was just not a normalized thing you

452

00:22:58,240 –> 00:22:59,440

were doing.

453

00:22:59,440 –> 00:23:04,640

And so Tuesdays and Thursdays I would be on campus taking classes at my like grad school

454

00:23:04,640 –> 00:23:05,640

apartment.

455

00:23:05,640 –> 00:23:10,080

I would actually, cause I wanted to be able to take, be cared for during like after a

456

00:23:10,080 –> 00:23:11,080

post chemo.

457

00:23:11,080 –> 00:23:17,560

So I would go home to Connecticut on Friday mornings, get treatment that like afternoon.

458

00:23:17,560 –> 00:23:20,640

And then I would spend the weekend with my family and go back to school, up to school

459

00:23:20,640 –> 00:23:25,680

on Mondays in Rhode Island and then continue that process again and again for the 20 weeks

460

00:23:25,680 –> 00:23:27,040

or whatever.

461

00:23:27,040 –> 00:23:32,120

And so yeah, it was a lot, but you know.

462

00:23:32,120 –> 00:23:36,040

Like at first it sounded like you gave yourself grace, but then at the end it did sound like

463

00:23:36,040 –> 00:23:37,040

it was a lot.

464

00:23:37,040 –> 00:23:40,440

So did you feel like it was in between or did you have to adjust?

465

00:23:40,440 –> 00:23:42,680

Yeah, I think there, it was hard.

466

00:23:42,680 –> 00:23:45,640

Like there were days where I should have been kinder to myself.

467

00:23:45,640 –> 00:23:47,000

Like I think in hindsight, right?

468

00:23:47,000 –> 00:23:48,000

Hindsight is 2020.

469

00:23:48,000 –> 00:23:52,480

So looking back, I’m like, wow, I know I should have been kinder to my 23 year old self, but

470

00:23:52,480 –> 00:23:54,360

I didn’t really know better.

471

00:23:54,360 –> 00:23:58,260

And there was a time where I kind of lauded myself for saying, I never missed a class.

472

00:23:58,260 –> 00:24:02,240

And I looked back and I’m like, that’s, you probably should have missed it.

473

00:24:02,240 –> 00:24:03,240

Okay.

474

00:24:03,240 –> 00:24:05,000

Everyone would have been fine if you missed the class.

475

00:24:05,000 –> 00:24:10,760

But I remember because there was one day where I, I tried to stay away from caffeine during

476

00:24:10,760 –> 00:24:16,200

treatment and you know, my nurse practitioner was like, you know, if you need a coffee once

477

00:24:16,200 –> 00:24:19,480

in a while, it’s fine, but you really should try to like minimize your caffeine intake.

478

00:24:19,480 –> 00:24:20,920

And I said, cool.

479

00:24:20,920 –> 00:24:24,280

And I remember this one day and I kind of like, was like, oh, I need a latte.

480

00:24:24,280 –> 00:24:27,400

I’m not going to make it through this three hour class if I don’t have this latte.

481

00:24:27,400 –> 00:24:30,080

And it was like, it tasted like liquid gold that day.

482

00:24:30,080 –> 00:24:31,080

Yeah.

483

00:24:31,080 –> 00:24:34,640

I just like really needed it.

484

00:24:34,640 –> 00:24:38,200

But I think a lot of it was like, I brought just like a lot of snacks and I, you know,

485

00:24:38,200 –> 00:24:39,200

again, we weren’t massed.

486

00:24:39,200 –> 00:24:43,120

So I was just sitting there with like grapes or something, just trying to like stay awake.

487

00:24:43,120 –> 00:24:44,120

Right.

488

00:24:44,120 –> 00:24:47,200

And people were understanding and I think people were actually more understanding than

489

00:24:47,200 –> 00:24:49,480

I think I was to myself during a lot of that.

490

00:24:49,480 –> 00:24:53,160

Because again, when you’re young, you expect yourself to be doing a lot and kind of going

491

00:24:53,160 –> 00:24:57,320

and, and I was, I don’t, I think I could have just been kinder to myself.

492

00:24:57,320 –> 00:25:00,400

But again, I, you know better now as time goes by.

493

00:25:00,400 –> 00:25:01,400

Yeah.

494

00:25:01,400 –> 00:25:02,400

Yeah, exactly.

495

00:25:02,400 –> 00:25:07,600

Did you keep your breast cancer journey private or were you open about your story with your

496

00:25:07,600 –> 00:25:11,520

family and friends or like people in college?

497

00:25:11,520 –> 00:25:16,360

When I was diagnosed, like I tried wigs and I looked ridiculous in them friends.

498

00:25:16,360 –> 00:25:21,960

Like I looked like, I think it’s just because I had like, I especially pre chemo, like I

499

00:25:21,960 –> 00:25:24,680

had a really petite face, like, you know, and all of that.

500

00:25:24,680 –> 00:25:26,640

And I just, it did not work.

501

00:25:26,640 –> 00:25:29,680

And so I did the caps and I did the wraps and I did all those things because it was

502

00:25:29,680 –> 00:25:32,280

winter when I was going through a majority of my treatment.

503

00:25:32,280 –> 00:25:36,920

So I needed that, but there was no way I was hiding this pretty much.

504

00:25:36,920 –> 00:25:38,560

Like people were going to know something was up.

505

00:25:38,560 –> 00:25:44,400

And so I was pretty open about it and I said to myself, it was kind of a self conversation

506

00:25:44,400 –> 00:25:45,400

at the start.

507

00:25:45,400 –> 00:25:50,880

And I said, you’re not going to be ashamed of this because you shouldn’t be, and you’re

508

00:25:50,880 –> 00:25:54,920

going to be open about it to the extent that you feel comfortable being open about it.

509

00:25:54,920 –> 00:25:57,600

And so, you know, I did tell people, Hey, I’m going through treatment.

510

00:25:57,600 –> 00:25:58,600

This is what’s happening.

511

00:25:58,600 –> 00:26:02,560

And it’s really funny because, and I know this will tie into the next piece we want

512

00:26:02,560 –> 00:26:06,760

to talk about, but you know, Instagram was like, just became a thing in 2012.

513

00:26:06,760 –> 00:26:09,000

And so a lot of my sharing was really on Facebook.

514

00:26:09,000 –> 00:26:11,940

And so of course now Facebook has those Facebook memories.

515

00:26:11,940 –> 00:26:17,240

And so those things will pop up where, and it’s just like me like venting about how like

516

00:26:17,240 –> 00:26:21,360

chemo sucks and the new last of pain and that I’m tired.

517

00:26:21,360 –> 00:26:26,440

And so I did share those things because I wanted to normalize it, especially during

518

00:26:26,440 –> 00:26:27,440

treatment.

519

00:26:27,440 –> 00:26:31,760

And it was partly because I didn’t also want to have to call family or friends to like

520

00:26:31,760 –> 00:26:33,400

keep everyone in the loop.

521

00:26:33,400 –> 00:26:38,120

And you know, I was, I didn’t have the capacity for like a caring bridge or whatever, you

522

00:26:38,120 –> 00:26:40,760

know, sort of site thing to like update people.

523

00:26:40,760 –> 00:26:43,200

And so I was kind of like, you can check my Facebook.

524

00:26:43,200 –> 00:26:46,860

This is where I think about my life and the venting and things.

525

00:26:46,860 –> 00:26:51,560

And so I did, I was pretty open about it, but I also, I think during treatment, I was

526

00:26:51,560 –> 00:26:56,760

more open than post-treatment about how difficult it was.

527

00:26:56,760 –> 00:27:00,800

Just because I think it’s easy because people see you and they, they’re, you’re bald and

528

00:27:00,800 –> 00:27:02,040

you’re like, yeah, this is hard.

529

00:27:02,040 –> 00:27:05,400

And they’re like, oh yeah, it must be hard because they see you as bald.

530

00:27:05,400 –> 00:27:09,240

But once your hair starts to grow back and everyone’s like, you’re fine.

531

00:27:09,240 –> 00:27:10,240

Must be great now.

532

00:27:10,240 –> 00:27:11,240

Yay.

533

00:27:11,240 –> 00:27:14,480

And you’re like, no, that’s not how this works.

534

00:27:14,480 –> 00:27:15,480

But okay.

535

00:27:15,480 –> 00:27:18,800

And so you stop telling people because you feel like you’re, especially early on, I felt

536

00:27:18,800 –> 00:27:23,240

like I was burdening people by bringing it up when again, I was struggling for quite

537

00:27:23,240 –> 00:27:24,240

some time.

538

00:27:24,240 –> 00:27:30,800

So there was like a couple of things that you mentioned, like one, not being ashamed

539

00:27:30,800 –> 00:27:33,160

of what you’re going through.

540

00:27:33,160 –> 00:27:36,520

And I love that.

541

00:27:36,520 –> 00:27:41,480

Honestly, love that because like, if you don’t tell that to yourself, it’s just going to

542

00:27:41,480 –> 00:27:44,840

get even worse when you go through the process.

543

00:27:44,840 –> 00:27:48,680

Secondly, I mean about post-treatment, it’s so true.

544

00:27:48,680 –> 00:27:50,920

Like I’m currently going through that process.

545

00:27:50,920 –> 00:27:57,840

Shana is going through that process where we may look fine, but honestly, like with

546

00:27:57,840 –> 00:28:03,120

the medication and just the post-treatment fatigue and all that, you went through this

547

00:28:03,120 –> 00:28:06,400

like sprint of surgery, chemotherapy.

548

00:28:06,400 –> 00:28:14,400

I know you didn’t do radiation, but just like going through all of that and then your

549

00:28:14,400 –> 00:28:16,560

doctors say, okay, bye.

550

00:28:16,560 –> 00:28:17,560

See ya.

551

00:28:17,560 –> 00:28:19,080

And you’re like, oh shit.

552

00:28:19,080 –> 00:28:21,000

I don’t even know how to…

553

00:28:21,000 –> 00:28:22,000

Yeah.

554

00:28:22,000 –> 00:28:25,040

You feel like you’re dropped in the ocean and they’re like, okay, you’re going to drown

555

00:28:25,040 –> 00:28:26,040

now.

556

00:28:26,040 –> 00:28:27,040

Have fun.

557

00:28:27,040 –> 00:28:28,040

I love that.

558

00:28:28,040 –> 00:28:30,920

Like you’re literally on this beautiful like cruise ship through treatment where you’re

559

00:28:30,920 –> 00:28:33,120

held and supported.

560

00:28:33,120 –> 00:28:36,680

I literally had this like written down somewhere because I was like, that’s what it feels like

561

00:28:36,680 –> 00:28:40,040

like you’re on this like beautiful cruise ship of what do you need?

562

00:28:40,040 –> 00:28:41,280

How are you doing?

563

00:28:41,280 –> 00:28:42,280

What do you like?

564

00:28:42,280 –> 00:28:43,280

All of those things.

565

00:28:43,280 –> 00:28:47,720

And then the moment, I mean, it’s literally the moment they, they huck you overboard and

566

00:28:47,720 –> 00:28:49,520

they so say, figure it out.

567

00:28:49,520 –> 00:28:52,520

And you’re like, what do I figure out?

568

00:28:52,520 –> 00:28:53,800

How do I live my life?

569

00:28:53,800 –> 00:28:58,560

They’re not even giving me any sort of guidance of how do I live the rest?

570

00:28:58,560 –> 00:29:05,320

And that’s the hard part is it’s not, how do I live the next 20 years of my life?

571

00:29:05,320 –> 00:29:08,640

How do I live the next 40, 50, 60 years of my life?

572

00:29:08,640 –> 00:29:13,040

Because I’m 20 something when I’m diagnosed that I hope to live.

573

00:29:13,040 –> 00:29:15,760

And then it’s like, here’s this hormone blocking med.

574

00:29:15,760 –> 00:29:16,760

Take it.

575

00:29:16,760 –> 00:29:17,760

These are the symptoms.

576

00:29:17,760 –> 00:29:20,000

There’s not really much else we could do.

577

00:29:20,000 –> 00:29:21,000

Bye.

578

00:29:21,000 –> 00:29:26,160

And then you’re like, oh my God, now I have to like manage all of the symptoms and things

579

00:29:26,160 –> 00:29:28,020

that come with this.

580

00:29:28,020 –> 00:29:30,560

And there’s really like not a ton of support.

581

00:29:30,560 –> 00:29:33,760

And then there’s not enough to have conversation about what those symptoms look like.

582

00:29:33,760 –> 00:29:35,440

Like, yeah, they talk about the hot flashes.

583

00:29:35,440 –> 00:29:36,440

Sure.

584

00:29:36,440 –> 00:29:41,600

Hot flashes, some of the like sexual dysfunction stuff or whatever, you know, like I had nausea,

585

00:29:41,600 –> 00:29:47,560

I had joint pain, like all these things that were not really actively discussed with me.

586

00:29:47,560 –> 00:29:50,000

Like, Hey, this is going to happen, maybe.

587

00:29:50,000 –> 00:29:52,720

And are these the things that could happen to you?

588

00:29:52,720 –> 00:29:56,640

And so I was having these pains thinking, oh my gosh, is cancer back?

589

00:29:56,640 –> 00:29:57,640

Was this this?

590

00:29:57,640 –> 00:30:01,880

And it’s like a lot of that stuff ended up being symptoms because of tamoxifen.

591

00:30:01,880 –> 00:30:05,600

It’s the year of 2012 and you were told you had breast cancer.

592

00:30:05,600 –> 00:30:12,900

As an AYA, how were you able to find resources and support groups of young adult women with

593

00:30:12,900 –> 00:30:14,420

breast cancer?

594

00:30:14,420 –> 00:30:15,920

If there was any?

595

00:30:15,920 –> 00:30:16,920

Yeah.

596

00:30:16,920 –> 00:30:22,800

So a lot of the resources for me at the time largely consisted of people who didn’t really

597

00:30:22,800 –> 00:30:25,160

look like me, whether it was in person or online.

598

00:30:25,160 –> 00:30:30,280

So like I think about my cancer center, youngest one there didn’t see anyone remotely my age,

599

00:30:30,280 –> 00:30:31,880

even if it was a different cancer.

600

00:30:31,880 –> 00:30:35,840

I remember specifically going to like a feel good, look better, like event where, you know,

601

00:30:35,840 –> 00:30:39,400

they give you the makeup and you do the hair and like, or the hair, but the makeup stuff.

602

00:30:39,400 –> 00:30:42,320

And you’re like, oh, that’s going to be nice.

603

00:30:42,320 –> 00:30:48,760

And again, youngest, like by a little Hong shot there, even online, you know, I joined

604

00:30:48,760 –> 00:30:53,480

different breast cancer forums because that’s really where a lot of even Facebook groups

605

00:30:53,480 –> 00:30:55,720

weren’t as active as they are today.

606

00:30:55,720 –> 00:31:00,200

Like it’s, you know, it was really like breast cancer.org.

607

00:31:00,200 –> 00:31:03,440

Like there was different forums on there where you found yourself just like chatting with

608

00:31:03,440 –> 00:31:05,360

people late at night in these forums.

609

00:31:05,360 –> 00:31:07,520

And a lot of these women were much older than me.

610

00:31:07,520 –> 00:31:11,560

No one was really my age, but they, so they, a lot of them viewed me and they tell me that,

611

00:31:11,560 –> 00:31:14,360

you know, I’ve connected with, I’ve stayed connected with a lot of them over the years

612

00:31:14,360 –> 00:31:18,840

where, you know, I’m kind of their like cancer daughter, but I’m not, it’s not, it’s not

613

00:31:18,840 –> 00:31:23,800

a peer, you know, it’s, it’s someone who I look to in a different way.

614

00:31:23,800 –> 00:31:27,480

My mom did have a friend who worked for the American Cancer Society in Connecticut.

615

00:31:27,480 –> 00:31:31,520

And so she connected me with another young woman who was my age when I was diagnosed.

616

00:31:31,520 –> 00:31:37,040

And so we did stay connected through treatment and it was nice to have that person, but you

617

00:31:37,040 –> 00:31:41,000

know, she was, we were young, so we were both working and like, so I was a full time student

618

00:31:41,000 –> 00:31:45,520

and she was a full time like working because she hadn’t needed health insurance and trying,

619

00:31:45,520 –> 00:31:49,520

she was, she needed to do the GoFundMe’s and stuff because she needed money to pay for

620

00:31:49,520 –> 00:31:50,520

her bills.

621

00:31:50,520 –> 00:31:54,460

And so it was hard to stay connected because she was in Connecticut and I was in Rhode

622

00:31:54,460 –> 00:31:55,460

Island.

623

00:31:55,460 –> 00:32:01,160

So we had some connection, but it was, it was difficult to bond because, and also we

624

00:32:01,160 –> 00:32:02,560

are at different points in our treatment.

625

00:32:02,560 –> 00:32:07,160

So like today, I feel like you can find someone who is going through the exact same treatment

626

00:32:07,160 –> 00:32:11,360

plan at the exact time and doing pretty much the same things you’re doing and you can be

627

00:32:11,360 –> 00:32:15,360

like step, step by step together a lot of the time.

628

00:32:15,360 –> 00:32:16,920

And that just wasn’t the case.

629

00:32:16,920 –> 00:32:20,320

It was, but it was a good friendship to have at the time.

630

00:32:20,320 –> 00:32:22,560

But again, distance made it difficult.

631

00:32:22,560 –> 00:32:27,640

And so that was really before, you know, for many years, that was like my, the one person

632

00:32:27,640 –> 00:32:28,640

I had known.

633

00:32:28,640 –> 00:32:31,480

And then I went like many years, you know, a couple of years after that.

634

00:32:31,480 –> 00:32:34,760

And then, you know, I slowly started to connect to people.

635

00:32:34,760 –> 00:32:40,120

But at the time when I was going in active treatment, I was in it as we like to say in

636

00:32:40,120 –> 00:32:43,200

the cancer community, I really didn’t have like anyone.

637

00:32:43,200 –> 00:32:45,080

I was pretty, I was somewhat alone.

638

00:32:45,080 –> 00:32:49,360

I mean, for the most part, especially during the day to day, you know, it wasn’t someone

639

00:32:49,360 –> 00:32:54,280

I could text at like maybe three in the morning and say, I can’t sleep.

640

00:32:54,280 –> 00:32:56,280

It was just me.

641

00:32:56,280 –> 00:32:58,240

And I can’t even imagine.

642

00:32:58,240 –> 00:33:04,720

Like in the beginning, I felt like super alone, but then gradually with Instagram and then

643

00:33:04,720 –> 00:33:10,360

meeting Shana, I feel like I was able to connect more.

644

00:33:10,360 –> 00:33:16,960

And like, you know, back in 2012, it’s just, I feel like it’s probably super like difficult

645

00:33:16,960 –> 00:33:23,840

for you to go through this journey, technically like alone, essentially, because you were

646

00:33:23,840 –> 00:33:29,880

the only one in your age group, even though you like you met this other person.

647

00:33:29,880 –> 00:33:35,480

But, you know, you guys were just only connecting for like a short period of time.

648

00:33:35,480 –> 00:33:39,040

But what about the long term, you know?

649

00:33:39,040 –> 00:33:40,040

Exactly.

650

00:33:40,040 –> 00:33:46,720

We had got off our initial call and I just remember like texting Rosalina and being like,

651

00:33:46,720 –> 00:33:52,840

I cannot even imagine a being 23 because you and I are the same age.

652

00:33:52,840 –> 00:33:54,820

You know, like I was going to Rhode Island all the time.

653

00:33:54,820 –> 00:33:56,880

My best friend went to college, the same college you went to.

654

00:33:56,880 –> 00:34:01,640

And like, I remember like going there and just like, I don’t want to say reckless, but

655

00:34:01,640 –> 00:34:02,640

like just careless.

656

00:34:02,640 –> 00:34:04,600

Like I can just, you know, you feel you’re almost like invincible.

657

00:34:04,600 –> 00:34:07,880

Like you’re just going out and you have a good time and everyone’s like, you know, you’re

658

00:34:07,880 –> 00:34:11,040

dating and you’re like, just like, it’s just like a different life.

659

00:34:11,040 –> 00:34:17,000

I had a different life at 23 than I do, obviously now at 33, just like the carefreeness.

660

00:34:17,000 –> 00:34:21,080

And then, you know, like I remember being diagnosed and the first thing I did was hit

661

00:34:21,080 –> 00:34:28,040

Facebook groups and did a deep dive on Instagram trying to find like anything, like anything,

662

00:34:28,040 –> 00:34:34,480

you know, any type of support and like to have like none of those resources 10 years

663

00:34:34,480 –> 00:34:35,680

ago.

664

00:34:35,680 –> 00:34:39,680

Like I don’t know if I would have been able, I would have been able to even have gotten

665

00:34:39,680 –> 00:34:40,680

through that.

666

00:34:40,680 –> 00:34:44,340

Like I just, I literally, I thought about you actually after that call for like probably

667

00:34:44,340 –> 00:34:46,200

two hours after we had spoke.

668

00:34:46,200 –> 00:34:50,120

Like I just like couldn’t even, I think I texted, I texted Rosalina.

669

00:34:50,120 –> 00:34:55,400

I just, I can’t, I cannot even fathom at 23 and not, and not having the resources, especially

670

00:34:55,400 –> 00:34:56,400

we do now.

671

00:34:56,400 –> 00:34:59,840

I think too, it’s like, it was just, it’s not even, I think the resources are important.

672

00:34:59,840 –> 00:35:02,320

And then I also just think the models, right?

673

00:35:02,320 –> 00:35:06,520

Like in the sense that like there are now people, whether they’re influencers or not,

674

00:35:06,520 –> 00:35:12,680

like people that are now so vocal about the, the post treatment things.

675

00:35:12,680 –> 00:35:17,160

Like, I mean, when I’m, again, when I was in it, my head was down, your head is down

676

00:35:17,160 –> 00:35:18,160

through it, right?

677

00:35:18,160 –> 00:35:20,120

Like you’re just, you’re just going day to day.

678

00:35:20,120 –> 00:35:25,400

You’re just doing the thing because you don’t really have an option, but it’s when treatment

679

00:35:25,400 –> 00:35:32,040

ends and that moment like hits and you’re like, okay, well, I don’t look like any other

680

00:35:32,040 –> 00:35:33,960

23 year old.

681

00:35:33,960 –> 00:35:36,080

What is my life like now?

682

00:35:36,080 –> 00:35:37,840

And that was harder.

683

00:35:37,840 –> 00:35:43,680

I think that was when not having those types of like normalization of what it was like

684

00:35:43,680 –> 00:35:46,200

was what made it so hard for me.

685

00:35:46,200 –> 00:35:50,720

I think in it was, I don’t want to say it was easier, but I, you know, people say this

686

00:35:50,720 –> 00:35:52,720

all the time, right?

687

00:35:52,720 –> 00:35:55,040

During treatment is always going to be easier than post-treatment.

688

00:35:55,040 –> 00:35:56,720

And it’s true.

689

00:35:56,720 –> 00:36:01,880

Because when you’re in it, not only are you more held by your doctors, but you are also

690

00:36:01,880 –> 00:36:05,920

in a space where you are consistently doing something.

691

00:36:05,920 –> 00:36:10,160

You’re scheduling doctor’s appointments, you’re recovering from surgery, you’re recovering

692

00:36:10,160 –> 00:36:13,600

from chemo, radiation, et cetera, whatever you’re dealing with.

693

00:36:13,600 –> 00:36:19,680

But when you’re not in that, you just, you have time to kind of sit and reflect and say,

694

00:36:19,680 –> 00:36:21,800

what is my life going to look like?

695

00:36:21,800 –> 00:36:23,440

What does that mean for me?

696

00:36:23,440 –> 00:36:25,920

How has this changed everything?

697

00:36:25,920 –> 00:36:27,240

Like you said, you were so careless.

698

00:36:27,240 –> 00:36:31,400

You were so, I was, I think about myself two years prior to that, you know, when I was

699

00:36:31,400 –> 00:36:32,880

in my senior year of college.

700

00:36:32,880 –> 00:36:37,760

I mean, you know, you’re an idiot when you’re just doing stupid things and you’re having

701

00:36:37,760 –> 00:36:38,760

a good time.

702

00:36:38,760 –> 00:36:39,760

And exactly that’s, yeah.

703

00:36:39,760 –> 00:36:45,600

But the moment that like that, everything changed for me.

704

00:36:45,600 –> 00:36:50,680

I mean, I literally, my worldview stopped and said, well, how you saw the world and

705

00:36:50,680 –> 00:36:52,560

how you thought your life was going to look?

706

00:36:52,560 –> 00:36:53,560

Absolutely.

707

00:36:53,560 –> 00:36:54,560

100%.

708

00:36:54,560 –> 00:36:55,560

Yes.

709

00:36:55,560 –> 00:36:58,040

Now, now process that.

710

00:36:58,040 –> 00:37:05,160

Now like 10 years later, let’s just say, how has the breast cancer community changed over

711

00:37:05,160 –> 00:37:06,960

time?

712

00:37:06,960 –> 00:37:12,080

Did you think social media like hugely influenced women sharing their stories online, you know,

713

00:37:12,080 –> 00:37:13,720

especially in young women?

714

00:37:13,720 –> 00:37:17,760

Yeah, I have loved seeing the transformation of that.

715

00:37:17,760 –> 00:37:22,680

Like I, it’s beautiful watching people share their stories, myself included, like it just

716

00:37:22,680 –> 00:37:24,120

sharing the real truth of that.

717

00:37:24,120 –> 00:37:31,040

The hard truths of that is like you said, that cancer, particularly for us that are

718

00:37:31,040 –> 00:37:33,920

in the AYA space is fucking traumatic.

719

00:37:33,920 –> 00:37:34,920

It is a trauma.

720

00:37:34,920 –> 00:37:39,400

Like, let’s just like, and I tell people that all the time I’m like, this is not, oh, you

721

00:37:39,400 –> 00:37:41,400

went through something health wise and you’re over it.

722

00:37:41,400 –> 00:37:46,760

No, this is a trauma that you continue to have to sit and process and deal with forever.

723

00:37:46,760 –> 00:37:48,160

Like it’s just what it is.

724

00:37:48,160 –> 00:37:51,240

And it takes years of your life to process that.

725

00:37:51,240 –> 00:37:54,000

And it’s something that will always be with you in some sort of way.

726

00:37:54,000 –> 00:37:55,000

Yeah.

727

00:37:55,000 –> 00:37:58,120

I have loved seeing that because I love the normalization of that cult.

728

00:37:58,120 –> 00:38:02,380

Like I’m going to say culturally, because I don’t think culturally that has fully shifted,

729

00:38:02,380 –> 00:38:07,960

but I think the more we share our stories as AYA’s, the more we will see a shift in

730

00:38:07,960 –> 00:38:10,440

knowledge that people have about it.

731

00:38:10,440 –> 00:38:14,320

Because even I’ve had conversations with my own family members who were like, I thought

732

00:38:14,320 –> 00:38:16,520

you talked about cancer a lot for like too long.

733

00:38:16,520 –> 00:38:18,560

I thought that was only your only identity.

734

00:38:18,560 –> 00:38:24,960

And I’m like, no, I just want to bring awareness to the fact that this is hard and people need

735

00:38:24,960 –> 00:38:29,520

to understand that this is difficult and that we need to be supportive of the people in

736

00:38:29,520 –> 00:38:31,720

our life.

737

00:38:31,720 –> 00:38:37,640

So we have like our podcast page, but then I have my personal page where like I want

738

00:38:37,640 –> 00:38:45,680

it to be more about me and not about cancer because truthfully and honestly, I felt that

739

00:38:45,680 –> 00:38:50,880

if I talked about cancer too much, that people were just going to be, oh, here we go again,

740

00:38:50,880 –> 00:38:52,640

Rosalina talking about cancer.

741

00:38:52,640 –> 00:38:55,400

And so I just didn’t want that.

742

00:38:55,400 –> 00:38:58,120

Or I guess I didn’t want people to think that.

743

00:38:58,120 –> 00:39:00,080

And social media is one lens, right?

744

00:39:00,080 –> 00:39:03,440

So this was literally the reason I bring it up is because it was a recent conversation

745

00:39:03,440 –> 00:39:08,000

with a close family member of mine who, you know, and that we had a conversation and it

746

00:39:08,000 –> 00:39:12,240

wasn’t like my immediate family, but it was someone who had like tangentially kind of

747

00:39:12,240 –> 00:39:15,320

kept up with me through mostly social media through and stuff.

748

00:39:15,320 –> 00:39:18,800

And so they were like, you know, I shared so much about that and we thought that was

749

00:39:18,800 –> 00:39:19,840

only you.

750

00:39:19,840 –> 00:39:24,080

And I was like, but no, I’m like, that’s one piece of me.

751

00:39:24,080 –> 00:39:27,440

And that’s what I choose to share because I think it’s an important messaging to share.

752

00:39:27,440 –> 00:39:31,040

And I think it’s an important thing to normalize and share.

753

00:39:31,040 –> 00:39:36,800

So, you know, but I, and when I didn’t, there was a time where I did very much kind of what

754

00:39:36,800 –> 00:39:41,400

you did, where I had a page that I just shared about my life and I didn’t share really about

755

00:39:41,400 –> 00:39:42,400

cancer.

756

00:39:42,400 –> 00:39:46,160

And, but then I realized I wasn’t feeling authentic in that for me.

757

00:39:46,160 –> 00:39:49,160

And again, everyone has to make their choice around that, what they want to do with that.

758

00:39:49,160 –> 00:39:55,680

But for me, that didn’t feel authentic because my world was shaken when this happened to

759

00:39:55,680 –> 00:39:57,880

me at 23.

760

00:39:57,880 –> 00:40:02,720

Again it’s changed my whole trajectory of how I view things in my day to day in my life.

761

00:40:02,720 –> 00:40:05,720

I’m okay with that being a part of me.

762

00:40:05,720 –> 00:40:09,640

There was a time where I really resisted that and I kind of denied that piece of cancer

763

00:40:09,640 –> 00:40:12,880

because it was, you know, other people must wanted that for me.

764

00:40:12,880 –> 00:40:14,960

And I said, you know, no.

765

00:40:14,960 –> 00:40:19,200

And that was part of my, my processing of the trauma of saying, this is a part of me

766

00:40:19,200 –> 00:40:20,920

and that is okay.

767

00:40:20,920 –> 00:40:21,960

And that is okay.

768

00:40:21,960 –> 00:40:26,760

And so I have to normalize that, Hey, it’s okay that I have this and that I can talk

769

00:40:26,760 –> 00:40:27,760

about it.

770

00:40:27,760 –> 00:40:32,180

And then also there are all these other things about me as a person that make me wonderful,

771

00:40:32,180 –> 00:40:35,320

but this is also a part of me and that’s okay too.

772

00:40:35,320 –> 00:40:36,320

Yeah.

773

00:40:36,320 –> 00:40:42,560

Like I know that there is like a lot of women who are still very much afraid of sharing

774

00:40:42,560 –> 00:40:45,040

their story online.

775

00:40:45,040 –> 00:40:51,360

And if there is someone out there that knows what you’re going through and then went to

776

00:40:51,360 –> 00:40:57,120

see a doctor or like felt something unusual, they can come to you.

777

00:40:57,120 –> 00:41:02,920

And if they do, like, I think you just accomplished what you were trying to do in the first place

778

00:41:02,920 –> 00:41:04,240

of just raising awareness.

779

00:41:04,240 –> 00:41:05,240

Yep.

780

00:41:05,240 –> 00:41:06,720

I 100% agree.

781

00:41:06,720 –> 00:41:07,760

That ends up being the case.

782

00:41:07,760 –> 00:41:10,800

I don’t know how much that’s happened to both of you because you know, you’re finished the

783

00:41:10,800 –> 00:41:16,760

post-treatment phase and stuff, but over the years, I mean, the number of people, young

784

00:41:16,760 –> 00:41:21,800

people, people that are just cancer, you know, cancer survive, early cancer survivors.

785

00:41:21,800 –> 00:41:26,280

I’ve talked to over the years because I’m the only person that other people know as

786

00:41:26,280 –> 00:41:27,840

a cancer survivor in their life.

787

00:41:27,840 –> 00:41:31,000

So they’re like, Justine, please talk to this person.

788

00:41:31,000 –> 00:41:35,080

And I’m like, you know, of course I’m happy to do that, but it’s nice to be a resource

789

00:41:35,080 –> 00:41:36,180

in that way.

790

00:41:36,180 –> 00:41:42,000

And I think that this whole process, it sucks, but at least I feel like in that way I’m giving

791

00:41:42,000 –> 00:41:43,440

support to other people.

792

00:41:43,440 –> 00:41:47,120

And even, like you said, there’s ways to be supportive without necessarily sharing your

793

00:41:47,120 –> 00:41:48,120

story.

794

00:41:48,120 –> 00:41:49,840

And I think that’s okay too.

795

00:41:49,840 –> 00:41:53,680

And everyone has, again, I said this before, but everyone has to do what fits best for

796

00:41:53,680 –> 00:41:57,920

them because there were many years I didn’t share about my story publicly in any sort

797

00:41:57,920 –> 00:42:00,560

of forum because I didn’t feel safe.

798

00:42:00,560 –> 00:42:02,240

I didn’t feel like that made sense.

799

00:42:02,240 –> 00:42:04,200

There was a lot of reasons for me to do that.

800

00:42:04,200 –> 00:42:05,840

And I now feel in a different place.

801

00:42:05,840 –> 00:42:09,480

So you know, everyone, you know, you make those changes as time goes on too.

802

00:42:09,480 –> 00:42:10,480

Absolutely.

803

00:42:10,480 –> 00:42:14,000

I think even a simple, like, feel it on the first post every month, like it just, if that

804

00:42:14,000 –> 00:42:16,360

reminds one person to do a breast exam.

805

00:42:16,360 –> 00:42:20,480

You know, it doesn’t even have to be like where you’re sharing every aspect of your

806

00:42:20,480 –> 00:42:22,360

life and everything.

807

00:42:22,360 –> 00:42:25,400

It could just, like you said, like figuring out what it is that works for you, that one

808

00:42:25,400 –> 00:42:29,800

small post every month or anything that reminds somebody like, oh, check yourself.

809

00:42:29,800 –> 00:42:33,480

Like I’ve gotten so many messages, like random people too that follow me, like girls I went

810

00:42:33,480 –> 00:42:34,480

to college with.

811

00:42:34,480 –> 00:42:38,880

Like I had something going on and like you made me go want to go get it checked out and

812

00:42:38,880 –> 00:42:41,400

ended up being nothing but like, thank you.

813

00:42:41,400 –> 00:42:47,040

I would never have done it had I not seen that, A, this had happened to you and B, like

814

00:42:47,040 –> 00:42:49,880

posting about it, posting about doing breast exams, doing this, doing that.

815

00:42:49,880 –> 00:42:53,480

So it’s yeah, like just finding what it is, whatever it is that you’re comfortable enough

816

00:42:53,480 –> 00:42:57,040

to share about it, to bring awareness is important.

817

00:42:57,040 –> 00:42:58,600

And sometimes it’s just being yourself too.

818

00:42:58,600 –> 00:43:02,360

So you know, I just, I always want to normalize the sharing of in a way that makes sense for

819

00:43:02,360 –> 00:43:03,360

the person.

820

00:43:03,360 –> 00:43:05,640

And you know, it’s the same idea of when, you know, some people share their scars on

821

00:43:05,640 –> 00:43:10,520

their page and I don’t and I, you know, that that’s my like mind too, and that’s where

822

00:43:10,520 –> 00:43:12,040

I feel comfortable and that’s fine.

823

00:43:12,040 –> 00:43:13,040

Like, right.

824

00:43:13,040 –> 00:43:16,980

And so you do what feels comfortable and but that there’s ways to find that through the

825

00:43:16,980 –> 00:43:19,940

experience too for folks listening, you know.

826

00:43:19,940 –> 00:43:23,900

Let’s move on to your explant surgery that you had recently.

827

00:43:23,900 –> 00:43:29,200

You’ve had a double mastectomy and you had silicone implants for years.

828

00:43:29,200 –> 00:43:34,600

Most recently you shared a vulnerable post on Instagram, letting your followers know

829

00:43:34,600 –> 00:43:41,360

that you didn’t necessarily have a choice whether to go flat or continue to be in pain

830

00:43:41,360 –> 00:43:43,720

by keeping your silicone implants.

831

00:43:43,720 –> 00:43:49,560

What were the factors that helped you make that choice to go flat?

832

00:43:49,560 –> 00:43:51,080

It was something I thought about for a long time.

833

00:43:51,080 –> 00:43:56,720

I mean, Instagram was a big influence for me following people that were younger, not

834

00:43:56,720 –> 00:44:01,600

necessarily my age, but not much older than me sharing about like living flat, living

835

00:44:01,600 –> 00:44:06,280

flat out loud and that you can be beautiful while flat.

836

00:44:06,280 –> 00:44:10,760

It gave me a lot of confidence to do that because I was really, I hemmed and hawed about

837

00:44:10,760 –> 00:44:14,760

it for a long time, like over, you know, a couple of years of time.

838

00:44:14,760 –> 00:44:20,680

I had a revision in 2019 and when I had my implant, I had a capsular contracture, my

839

00:44:20,680 –> 00:44:21,680

implant flipped.

840

00:44:21,680 –> 00:44:26,080

Basically that was the moment where I said I was kind of a realization for me and I said,

841

00:44:26,080 –> 00:44:29,720

you know, if I have another issue with my implants, I’m going to take them out and I’m

842

00:44:29,720 –> 00:44:31,280

probably going to go flat.

843

00:44:31,280 –> 00:44:36,000

But then I developed shortly after I developed lymphedema and there was just all these different

844

00:44:36,000 –> 00:44:39,360

reasons for me that I said, you know, it was the lymphedema.

845

00:44:39,360 –> 00:44:43,280

It was the not wanting to be cut into more for me.

846

00:44:43,280 –> 00:44:47,720

I had, I’ve had a lot of surgeries, like different smaller procedures because of side effects

847

00:44:47,720 –> 00:44:51,480

and different things related to treatment, which, you know, we’ll go into the full details

848

00:44:51,480 –> 00:44:52,480

here.

849

00:44:52,480 –> 00:44:55,440

But that being said, I really just didn’t want to be cut into more.

850

00:44:55,440 –> 00:44:59,160

I’m tired is the best way for me to say it after 10 years, tired.

851

00:44:59,160 –> 00:45:00,680

And that’s kind of what it was for me.

852

00:45:00,680 –> 00:45:05,080

And so I didn’t want to go under the knife again and again and again.

853

00:45:05,080 –> 00:45:08,200

And to be honest, in the back of my mind, I always kind of think I knew this was something

854

00:45:08,200 –> 00:45:10,000

I would eventually do.

855

00:45:10,000 –> 00:45:11,280

I never tattooed my chest.

856

00:45:11,280 –> 00:45:13,240

I never got the nipple tattoos or anything like that.

857

00:45:13,240 –> 00:45:16,800

And doctors would ask me, I’d go for my, you know, see my oncologist, see my breast surgeon

858

00:45:16,800 –> 00:45:18,840

and they’d say, oh, are you going to do this?

859

00:45:18,840 –> 00:45:20,400

And I’m like, I don’t know.

860

00:45:20,400 –> 00:45:21,400

I don’t think so.

861

00:45:21,400 –> 00:45:22,400

I’m fine with them right.

862

00:45:22,400 –> 00:45:23,400

You know, the way it is right now.

863

00:45:23,400 –> 00:45:27,840

And I think because I knew at some point I would get rid of these implants and call it

864

00:45:27,840 –> 00:45:29,520

a day and call it quit.

865

00:45:29,520 –> 00:45:35,640

That wasn’t an option given to me when I was initially diagnosed, but it was still a difficult

866

00:45:35,640 –> 00:45:37,640

decision even when I made it.

867

00:45:37,640 –> 00:45:39,360

I thought about it for a long time.

868

00:45:39,360 –> 00:45:43,240

So this wasn’t something where, you know, I talk about it sometimes like, you know,

869

00:45:43,240 –> 00:45:47,360

my fashion post on Instagram now where I’m like excited about living flat.

870

00:45:47,360 –> 00:45:50,080

And I am, but at the same time, it wasn’t easy.

871

00:45:50,080 –> 00:45:53,960

You know, I met my husband after cancer, as I said, so he only knew me with scars and

872

00:45:53,960 –> 00:45:56,720

his support also was a really big factor in that.

873

00:45:56,720 –> 00:46:00,640

And at the same time, it’s also saying like, F you to the whole patriarchal idea that I

874

00:46:00,640 –> 00:46:04,040

need to have breasts, because to me that’s also like, if you want to, and it’s supportive

875

00:46:04,040 –> 00:46:05,040

for you.

876

00:46:05,040 –> 00:46:07,080

And for me, it was supportive for many years.

877

00:46:07,080 –> 00:46:11,360

So like normalizing that and then also saying this isn’t serving me anymore.

878

00:46:11,360 –> 00:46:12,360

This is where I’m at.

879

00:46:12,360 –> 00:46:14,160

And that’s okay too.

880

00:46:14,160 –> 00:46:15,160

Love it.

881

00:46:15,160 –> 00:46:16,160

Love it.

882

00:46:16,160 –> 00:46:23,520

Can you tell the listeners, what does it mean to have an explant surgery and what that entails?

883

00:46:23,520 –> 00:46:25,840

Cause there’s just so many like terminologies.

884

00:46:25,840 –> 00:46:26,840

Yeah, sure.

885

00:46:26,840 –> 00:46:31,680

So an explant surgery is where it really does depend.

886

00:46:31,680 –> 00:46:36,560

So either a plastic surgeon or a breast surgeon, it depends on who you end up getting for the

887

00:46:36,560 –> 00:46:41,240

surgery and whether they are willing to do the surgery, which is a whole different other

888

00:46:41,240 –> 00:46:43,000

thing, but they’ll remove the breast implant.

889

00:46:43,000 –> 00:46:46,160

They’ll remove the capsule that’s around the breast implant.

890

00:46:46,160 –> 00:46:50,600

So that’s a capsulectomy and any surrounding like scar tissue to kind of clean up that

891

00:46:50,600 –> 00:46:51,600

area.

892

00:46:51,600 –> 00:46:54,020

Now there’s different types of flat closure.

893

00:46:54,020 –> 00:46:57,480

So there’s flat closure where folks are left with dog ears.

894

00:46:57,480 –> 00:47:01,640

So basically there’s extra skin, like what we call the mastectomy flaps.

895

00:47:01,640 –> 00:47:04,400

And so sometimes folks are left with this for a couple of reasons.

896

00:47:04,400 –> 00:47:07,480

Sometimes they want the option to reconstruct in the future.

897

00:47:07,480 –> 00:47:08,480

Great.

898

00:47:08,480 –> 00:47:12,040

And then sometimes their doctor didn’t listen to them when they asked for a flat closure

899

00:47:12,040 –> 00:47:13,560

and left it.

900

00:47:13,560 –> 00:47:17,200

And that’s really devastating because then they have to go back for another surgery to

901

00:47:17,200 –> 00:47:18,600

revise that.

902

00:47:18,600 –> 00:47:23,960

Now what I had and what I pushed for from my doctor was an aesthetic flat closure.

903

00:47:23,960 –> 00:47:28,920

So this is where you remove that extra skin, the mastectomy flaps, so that extra piece,

904

00:47:28,920 –> 00:47:34,020

and then you create a smooth or at least as smooth as possible chest surface that is flat

905

00:47:34,020 –> 00:47:35,400

all the way around.

906

00:47:35,400 –> 00:47:39,240

I originally had two scars that were here and now I have one long scar that goes all

907

00:47:39,240 –> 00:47:43,480

the way underneath my armpits on both sides because to remove that extra skin, but it’s

908

00:47:43,480 –> 00:47:44,760

one big scar.

909

00:47:44,760 –> 00:47:49,240

I don’t have any additional kind of scars at this point, besides the drain, you know,

910

00:47:49,240 –> 00:47:51,280

scars and stuff like this, but those will heal.

911

00:47:51,280 –> 00:47:56,520

Thank you for saying that because I want the listeners to know the difference because there

912

00:47:56,520 –> 00:47:58,160

is a difference.

913

00:47:58,160 –> 00:48:05,040

If you decide to go flat and not have like any revision of like going back to implants

914

00:48:05,040 –> 00:48:10,040

or getting a tissue flap or any of that, just making sure that you tell your plastic surgeon,

915

00:48:10,040 –> 00:48:12,240

no, I want to be flat forever.

916

00:48:12,240 –> 00:48:13,240

Essentially.

917

00:48:13,240 –> 00:48:14,240

I don’t want to go back.

918

00:48:14,240 –> 00:48:18,280

One thing I will recommend for listeners who are even thinking that, you know, one, always

919

00:48:18,280 –> 00:48:21,800

happy to talk to anyone that wants to have that conversation about that and then also

920

00:48:21,800 –> 00:48:23,960

a good resource is not putting on a shirt.

921

00:48:23,960 –> 00:48:27,560

They have a lot of resources for different surgeons that are like cleared, like they

922

00:48:27,560 –> 00:48:32,160

are known for doing aesthetic flat closure, are willing to do it, are open to it because

923

00:48:32,160 –> 00:48:35,900

sometimes doctors near you are not necessarily open.

924

00:48:35,900 –> 00:48:37,000

My doctor was supportive.

925

00:48:37,000 –> 00:48:40,440

I was lucky for that and I think part of it was because I had been a survivor so long,

926

00:48:40,440 –> 00:48:42,640

so I was able to advocate for myself in that way.

927

00:48:42,640 –> 00:48:46,420

But if you’re someone who wants to do this directly, right, as your bilateral mastectomy

928

00:48:46,420 –> 00:48:51,100

too flat, sometimes that isn’t as supportive, especially for us younger folks.

929

00:48:51,100 –> 00:48:57,080

And so just knowing that there’s doctors out there who would be supportive is also another,

930

00:48:57,080 –> 00:49:00,520

you know, or at least there’s language and pictures and all these things that you can

931

00:49:00,520 –> 00:49:01,520

show your doctors.

932

00:49:01,520 –> 00:49:03,000

So that’s a really good resource.

933

00:49:03,000 –> 00:49:08,320

They’re not putting on a shirt because aesthetic flat closure is actually a new term in 2020.

934

00:49:08,320 –> 00:49:10,200

That term was official.

935

00:49:10,200 –> 00:49:15,160

And so that’s a new terminology that’s being used in the cancer community, particularly

936

00:49:15,160 –> 00:49:16,160

by doctors.

937

00:49:16,160 –> 00:49:17,160

But you mentioned that resource.

938

00:49:17,160 –> 00:49:22,080

We’ll put it in our show notes for anyone that wants to take a look.

939

00:49:22,080 –> 00:49:29,680

I want to touch on the topic and the symbolism of breast, which in our society means a symbol

940

00:49:29,680 –> 00:49:37,080

of beauty, femininity, motherhood, and just being desirable to our partners.

941

00:49:37,080 –> 00:49:44,560

Without breast, some women feel self-conscious, unlovable, undesirable, and could play a factor

942

00:49:44,560 –> 00:49:47,560

in why women get breast reconstruction.

943

00:49:47,560 –> 00:49:53,720

But that being said, in your opinion and like what you’re currently going through, how else

944

00:49:53,720 –> 00:49:57,080

can a woman find her beauty and femininity?

945

00:49:57,080 –> 00:49:58,080

Yeah.

946

00:49:58,080 –> 00:50:02,400

So for me, because again, this is going to be on a spectrum depending on how feminine

947

00:50:02,400 –> 00:50:03,400

someone identifies.

948

00:50:03,400 –> 00:50:05,600

But for me, I’m quite feminine identifying.

949

00:50:05,600 –> 00:50:09,720

And so for me, it’s been finding outfits that work for my new flat body, which is why I’ve

950

00:50:09,720 –> 00:50:12,720

been like sharing those posts and things because that’s exciting for me.

951

00:50:12,720 –> 00:50:16,800

Just like I feel pretty in this and those have been the enjoyable things to find.

952

00:50:16,800 –> 00:50:20,360

And it’s been wearing things I couldn’t wear with my foods because I didn’t have the beautiful

953

00:50:20,360 –> 00:50:22,120

cleavage that some women achieve.

954

00:50:22,120 –> 00:50:26,520

I had very much a pretty decent space between mine, which some women get depending on your

955

00:50:26,520 –> 00:50:29,360

reconstruction and how that falls with your anatomy.

956

00:50:29,360 –> 00:50:32,960

There were times where there are certain halter tops and things I can wear now that I would

957

00:50:32,960 –> 00:50:37,640

never have worn without a bra, even with no nipples, because my food would just pop out.

958

00:50:37,640 –> 00:50:38,640

There was no way.

959

00:50:38,640 –> 00:50:40,520

And so it’s been nice finding those things.

960

00:50:40,520 –> 00:50:46,140

But even with boobs, too, it was finding things that I felt like sexy in and I felt pretty

961

00:50:46,140 –> 00:50:47,400

and beautiful.

962

00:50:47,400 –> 00:50:49,660

For me, a lot of it was finding new clothes.

963

00:50:49,660 –> 00:50:53,840

It was also just it’s accentuating the other parts or noticing the other parts of your

964

00:50:53,840 –> 00:50:56,200

body that you love.

965

00:50:56,200 –> 00:50:58,000

Maybe that is your smile.

966

00:50:58,000 –> 00:50:59,700

Maybe that is your legs.

967

00:50:59,700 –> 00:51:01,160

Maybe that are, you know, that’s your butt.

968

00:51:01,160 –> 00:51:02,160

I don’t know.

969

00:51:02,160 –> 00:51:06,940

Whatever you feel like, what other parts of your body do you feel confident about?

970

00:51:06,940 –> 00:51:10,640

And really thinking about how can I accentuate this, whether that’s in clothing, whether

971

00:51:10,640 –> 00:51:14,840

that is just you paying more attention to that and bringing awareness to it.

972

00:51:14,840 –> 00:51:18,000

For me, that is how I went about finding it.

973

00:51:18,000 –> 00:51:19,420

It’s really those moments.

974

00:51:19,420 –> 00:51:22,380

It was really not about other people.

975

00:51:22,380 –> 00:51:26,440

Even my husband, it was about myself and how am I feeling beautiful?

976

00:51:26,440 –> 00:51:29,060

How am I viewing myself and my body?

977

00:51:29,060 –> 00:51:34,400

And so whenever I found something I felt confident in, it was definitely either buying multiple

978

00:51:34,400 –> 00:51:41,000

of that outfit or just, you know, noticing the parts of me that I really like about my

979

00:51:41,000 –> 00:51:42,000

body.

980

00:51:42,000 –> 00:51:45,800

And that can be hard because your body changes through treatment too.

981

00:51:45,800 –> 00:51:50,120

If you, you know, chemo with steroids, I gained weight.

982

00:51:50,120 –> 00:51:52,080

It was hard to lose weight with tamoxifen.

983

00:51:52,080 –> 00:51:58,720

And so it was finding love for a new and very different body, not just because of the reconstruction.

984

00:51:58,720 –> 00:52:03,080

And then now with my ex-plank, it’s my body has changed in 10 years and I’m finding every

985

00:52:03,080 –> 00:52:08,360

day it’s finding new love for this body that has been changed again and again and again.

986

00:52:08,360 –> 00:52:13,440

And it’s different than I think someone who hasn’t gone through something like this, but

987

00:52:13,440 –> 00:52:17,440

you know, we often talk about this with women when they go through like menopause or something.

988

00:52:17,440 –> 00:52:22,640

Well, for us AYA specifically breast cancer folk, you’re really dealing with this earlier

989

00:52:22,640 –> 00:52:26,380

and you’re just processing it earlier, but it’s really where can you find that love for

990

00:52:26,380 –> 00:52:27,380

yourself?

991

00:52:27,380 –> 00:52:29,200

And also maybe it is the cancer parts too.

992

00:52:29,200 –> 00:52:34,240

So for me, it’s touching my scars, really looking at them and seeing them.

993

00:52:34,240 –> 00:52:35,640

For some women that isn’t the case.

994

00:52:35,640 –> 00:52:37,440

So I again, normalizing that too.

995

00:52:37,440 –> 00:52:39,560

Like if looking at your scars is hard, that’s okay.

996

00:52:39,560 –> 00:52:41,360

That was hard for me for a long time.

997

00:52:41,360 –> 00:52:46,400

So wherever that fits for you, it’s the finding that is important.

998

00:52:46,400 –> 00:52:48,360

Thank you so much for your honesty.

999

00:52:48,360 –> 00:52:51,960

Rosalina and I had spoken about this a couple of weeks ago, just trying to figure out how

1000

00:52:51,960 –> 00:52:56,880

to live in your new body, not only like love it, but like live it.

1001

00:52:56,880 –> 00:52:58,840

And that’s, that’s difficult.

1002

00:52:58,840 –> 00:53:03,640

It’s hard, especially I think like being new to post-treatment and then our first year

1003

00:53:03,640 –> 00:53:06,080

of post-treatment, it’s a really difficult thing.

1004

00:53:06,080 –> 00:53:09,480

So, you know, and especially like you said, after 10 years, your body’s already changed.

1005

00:53:09,480 –> 00:53:11,680

So you have to keep doing it.

1006

00:53:11,680 –> 00:53:15,760

And it’s time, I think too, just giving yourself time and being patient with it too.

1007

00:53:15,760 –> 00:53:17,520

I think that’s a big factor.

1008

00:53:17,520 –> 00:53:21,540

Because I think we want to rush to get back to whatever we thought we were.

1009

00:53:21,540 –> 00:53:22,800

And I definitely had those moments.

1010

00:53:22,800 –> 00:53:23,800

Instant gratification.

1011

00:53:23,800 –> 00:53:24,800

Yeah.

1012

00:53:24,800 –> 00:53:26,680

And I had those moments and I won’t act like I didn’t.

1013

00:53:26,680 –> 00:53:30,000

Like I’m not sitting here like, oh no, no, I definitely had those moments where I hated

1014

00:53:30,000 –> 00:53:31,000

it.

1015

00:53:31,000 –> 00:53:33,200

And there’s still days I’m like, I don’t like this part of my body or I don’t like my body

1016

00:53:33,200 –> 00:53:34,200

right now.

1017

00:53:34,200 –> 00:53:37,360

And for me, it’s a constant conversation with myself and like, you know, this kind of thought

1018

00:53:37,360 –> 00:53:43,220

process of reflection of how am I looking at myself and how can I do this from a place

1019

00:53:43,220 –> 00:53:44,840

of self-compassion.

1020

00:53:44,840 –> 00:53:50,700

So I know that we’re recording this in June, but your canterversary is coming up next month.

1021

00:53:50,700 –> 00:53:53,680

You’re going to hit the 10 year mark.

1022

00:53:53,680 –> 00:53:58,480

So Justine, just so you know, I’ve only been diagnosed for a year.

1023

00:53:58,480 –> 00:54:02,280

So I’m really new into this community.

1024

00:54:02,280 –> 00:54:07,480

But you are the first AYA cancer survivor who I met that’s going to be reaching their

1025

00:54:07,480 –> 00:54:08,760

10 year mark.

1026

00:54:08,760 –> 00:54:12,600

And I think that’s just an unbelievable, like huge milestone.

1027

00:54:12,600 –> 00:54:15,600

You know, I feel like both Shana and I like look up to you.

1028

00:54:15,600 –> 00:54:20,880

Can you tell us, you know, how you feel and will you be celebrating?

1029

00:54:20,880 –> 00:54:21,880

Yeah.

1030

00:54:21,880 –> 00:54:25,240

So first, I’m feeling a ton of emotions, like it’s a lot.

1031

00:54:25,240 –> 00:54:28,560

I don’t know if either of you have seen the Disney movie Inside Out, but there’s a whole

1032

00:54:28,560 –> 00:54:32,040

like, and that whole ending of that film, there’s like a swirling of emotions.

1033

00:54:32,040 –> 00:54:33,760

And like, that’s the whole point is you develop.

1034

00:54:33,760 –> 00:54:35,800

I love that movie so much.

1035

00:54:35,800 –> 00:54:37,480

I thought it was like the per I’m not kidding.

1036

00:54:37,480 –> 00:54:40,840

I thought it was the perfect way to explain like, especially emotions to kids when we

1037

00:54:40,840 –> 00:54:44,320

don’t understand how big feelings and how fast things can change.

1038

00:54:44,320 –> 00:54:47,520

I thought that movie was incredible and so underrated.

1039

00:54:47,520 –> 00:54:50,880

And what I like about it just and it’s not giving away anything too big.

1040

00:54:50,880 –> 00:54:54,120

But as we age, emotions become really complex and they become intermingled.

1041

00:54:54,120 –> 00:54:55,120

Right.

1042

00:54:55,120 –> 00:54:57,480

You’re not just experiencing one and then the other, like you’re actually experiencing

1043

00:54:57,480 –> 00:54:59,880

anger and happiness or anger and sadness.

1044

00:54:59,880 –> 00:55:03,880

Like these things all commingle because that’s how we really experience emotions.

1045

00:55:03,880 –> 00:55:08,400

My point that I was trying to make here was that I’m feeling a lot of everything.

1046

00:55:08,400 –> 00:55:09,400

I’m excited.

1047

00:55:09,400 –> 00:55:11,760

Of course I’m excited, but I’m really nervous.

1048

00:55:11,760 –> 00:55:14,840

Like every day that goes by, I’m like, oh my God, okay, how am I feeling?

1049

00:55:14,840 –> 00:55:15,840

How am I feeling?

1050

00:55:15,840 –> 00:55:16,840

Do I feel okay?

1051

00:55:16,840 –> 00:55:17,840

Okay.

1052

00:55:17,840 –> 00:55:20,840

And like that, those type of questions, I’m overwhelmed a little bit because I, when I

1053

00:55:20,840 –> 00:55:24,240

was diagnosed, if you were, you know, I’m sure you were given these, but you get those

1054

00:55:24,240 –> 00:55:25,240

statistics, right?

1055

00:55:25,240 –> 00:55:29,520

Of like what your recurrence rate looks like if you do certain X, Y treatments, you, what,

1056

00:55:29,520 –> 00:55:32,480

how likely are you, is it that you’re going to be here in 10 years?

1057

00:55:32,480 –> 00:55:34,000

Like they give you the mortality rate stuff.

1058

00:55:34,000 –> 00:55:35,800

At least I was given that.

1059

00:55:35,800 –> 00:55:38,400

And I remember that stuck out to me.

1060

00:55:38,400 –> 00:55:43,520

Like when I was diagnosed, like so strongly, I remember thinking, well, if I make it to

1061

00:55:43,520 –> 00:55:45,480

30, I’m going to be stoked.

1062

00:55:45,480 –> 00:55:47,000

I made it to 30.

1063

00:55:47,000 –> 00:55:50,960

Now I’m looking to 40 and I’m like, all right, let’s go to 40.

1064

00:55:50,960 –> 00:55:55,280

And that’s all I can really do is like, I’m kind of going every 10 years, like, all right,

1065

00:55:55,280 –> 00:55:56,280

let’s make it 10 more.

1066

00:55:56,280 –> 00:55:57,280

I hope I do.

1067

00:55:57,280 –> 00:56:01,240

Like I’m really hopeful about that, but I also like, it’s a, it’s a really, it’s a lot

1068

00:56:01,240 –> 00:56:02,240

of existentialism.

1069

00:56:02,240 –> 00:56:06,480

Like a lot of my therapy was like processing that where it’s like, well, we’ll see.

1070

00:56:06,480 –> 00:56:07,720

And you know, that’s okay.

1071

00:56:07,720 –> 00:56:08,720

I will be celebrating.

1072

00:56:08,720 –> 00:56:12,840

Like my plan is I’m going to celebrate with my husband and with family and even next this

1073

00:56:12,840 –> 00:56:15,380

coming week, I’m going on a retreat.

1074

00:56:15,380 –> 00:56:16,380

So pride retreat.

1075

00:56:16,380 –> 00:56:17,380

Yes, I saw.

1076

00:56:17,380 –> 00:56:18,380

Yeah.

1077

00:56:18,380 –> 00:56:19,380

Yeah.

1078

00:56:19,380 –> 00:56:20,380

That’s exciting.

1079

00:56:20,380 –> 00:56:21,380

Yeah.

1080

00:56:21,380 –> 00:56:24,520

And so just for context with the listeners, it’s a retreat for breast cancer affected

1081

00:56:24,520 –> 00:56:26,440

folks, pre-biover survivors and divers.

1082

00:56:26,440 –> 00:56:30,280

And we’re all getting together as a small group of us, like 18 of us getting together

1083

00:56:30,280 –> 00:56:32,240

and just connecting in Florida.

1084

00:56:32,240 –> 00:56:34,160

And it’s going to be really awesome.

1085

00:56:34,160 –> 00:56:36,640

We’ve already kind of connected virtually over the past year.

1086

00:56:36,640 –> 00:56:41,840

And so it’s going to be really exciting to be in space together and just, and I think

1087

00:56:41,840 –> 00:56:46,520

it’s a really nice way to like lead into my 10 year cancerversary because I, you know,

1088

00:56:46,520 –> 00:56:49,720

I haven’t been to a retreat in like three years because of COVID.

1089

00:56:49,720 –> 00:56:53,760

And so I’m really excited just to be in space with people and to who get it.

1090

00:56:53,760 –> 00:56:54,760

Yeah.

1091

00:56:54,760 –> 00:57:00,200

I’m going to mention the pride retreat is run by Yara and we support her so much.

1092

00:57:00,200 –> 00:57:04,200

So I’ll link her Instagram in the show notes as well.

1093

00:57:04,200 –> 00:57:06,240

So everyone knows about that.

1094

00:57:06,240 –> 00:57:11,560

And they also run this program where like, if you sign up, you can get free coffee.

1095

00:57:11,560 –> 00:57:12,560

Yeah.

1096

00:57:12,560 –> 00:57:15,680

So yeah, you can sign up and get free coffee if you’re a breast cancer survivor, cancer

1097

00:57:15,680 –> 00:57:16,680

survivor.

1098

00:57:16,680 –> 00:57:17,680

So yeah, definitely do that.

1099

00:57:17,680 –> 00:57:18,680

It’s really cool.

1100

00:57:18,680 –> 00:57:22,560

And the work she’s doing, I mean, she’s also in like a little bit past you both in terms

1101

00:57:22,560 –> 00:57:26,520

of like post-treatment, but also like in a space where very much newer to this.

1102

00:57:26,520 –> 00:57:29,640

And it’s just like go hit in the ground running and like doing things in the community.

1103

00:57:29,640 –> 00:57:30,640

And I love it.

1104

00:57:30,640 –> 00:57:31,640

I love it so much.

1105

00:57:31,640 –> 00:57:32,640

So it’s wonderful.

1106

00:57:32,640 –> 00:57:33,640

It was a nice pick me up.

1107

00:57:33,640 –> 00:57:34,640

I got a free cup of coffee.

1108

00:57:34,640 –> 00:57:35,640

I think it was a nice pick me up.

1109

00:57:35,640 –> 00:57:38,640

And it was just like, it was such a nice like, it made my day actually.

1110

00:57:38,640 –> 00:57:41,720

You don’t even realize it made my day too.

1111

00:57:41,720 –> 00:57:43,720

Honestly, such a great feeling.

1112

00:57:43,720 –> 00:57:44,720

Yeah.

1113

00:57:44,720 –> 00:57:45,720

Yeah.

1114

00:57:45,720 –> 00:57:49,200

Lastly, let’s just get into your meditation practice.

1115

00:57:49,200 –> 00:57:54,600

As I mentioned in the beginning to the listeners, you know, you host a weekly meditation for

1116

00:57:54,600 –> 00:57:56,520

the breast cancer community.

1117

00:57:56,520 –> 00:57:57,600

Why did you start this?

1118

00:57:57,600 –> 00:58:03,840

I had practiced yoga sporadically throughout my like survivorship throughout college.

1119

00:58:03,840 –> 00:58:08,480

And after my revision surgery, I just realized I really needed to heal from like a place

1120

00:58:08,480 –> 00:58:10,700

of like self compassion and kindness.

1121

00:58:10,700 –> 00:58:15,240

And so I really began a yoga practice and meditation practice.

1122

00:58:15,240 –> 00:58:19,440

And I did that for a couple of years and then realized I really wanted to share this with

1123

00:58:19,440 –> 00:58:22,920

the community because I, you know, as I shared earlier, I’m a college professor.

1124

00:58:22,920 –> 00:58:25,640

So teaching is kind of part of me as a person.

1125

00:58:25,640 –> 00:58:29,160

I like to teach other people and be in space in that way.

1126

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And for me, yoga was just so healing for me.

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It helped me conduct to my body.

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